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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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OK, thanks guys. I've learned something here. I really thought that applying light oil would not be any worse than a light coat of oil based primer.
Yes I was very surprised this year to return here after my van had been sitting outside on a gravel bed for 11 months and the rust was no worse than when I left.
So I will just keep hitting it with rust converter year after year until I can deal with it all properly. No I won't be driving it at all in the Winter...
Thanks all for walking me thru my misconceptions.
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Back to the main question.... I would not choose between a "rust converter" product, and simply brushing on some white vinegar. My guess is that both will do more or less the same thing but the "product" will do it in just one application whereas I would have to do about 5 applications of vinegar to achieve a similar result?
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2319
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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| epowell wrote: |
But there is so much of this surface rust, I really need A LOT of liquid to 'treat' it all - - - it struck me that rather than spending a lot of money on "official" products, there must be some good recipies out there for 'converting' the rust before I spray with oil. |
Ospho - or Home Depot or whatever equivalents are brilliant at converting surface rust (and deeper stuff too if you're dedicated) to iron phosphate. Good to paint over.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3576
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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| epowell wrote: |
OK, thanks guys. I've learned something here. I really thought that applying light oil would not be any worse than a light coat of oil based primer.
Yes I was very surprised this year to return here after my van had been sitting outside on a gravel bed for 11 months and the rust was no worse than when I left.
So I will just keep hitting it with rust converter year after year until I can deal with it all properly. No I won't be driving it at all in the Winter...
Thanks all for walking me thru my misconceptions.
- - -
Back to the main question.... I would not choose between a "rust converter" product, and simply brushing on some white vinegar. My guess is that both will do more or less the same thing but the "product" will do it in just one application whereas I would have to do about 5 applications of vinegar to achieve a similar result? |
Fill this with two or three of quarts of Rust Converter, Spray away as needed.
Wash the sprayer out with warm to hot water after using it, the converter dries on plastic easily( I’ve seen this first hand time and time again with plastic cups holding my Converter as I brush it onto something).
Come back months later and show us pictures of how well, or not, the Converter held up
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-Gal-Pump-Sprayer-1501HDXA/307766754
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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MayorMcCheese
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2009
Posts: 658
Location: Lancaster PA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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| 4Gears4Tires wrote: |
Molasses is even better at eating away rust without damaging the metal.
https://christinedemerchant.com/molasses-rust-removal.html
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/rust-removal-using-molasses-90452/
https://todayshomeowner.com/video/how-to-remove-rust-using-molasses/
I have been dealing with rust for 15 years working on my old BMWs. It's always been an issue. With the Vanagon over the last year I've started using 3M Mar-Hyde. It's a bit pricy at $45/liter, but it goes a long way. It looks like and has the consistency of milk, to give you a better idea of how well you can paint it on the surface of items. 2 coats spaced 30 minutes apart gives great results because the first coat will contract a bit and might leave gaps. It leaves a very durable plastic epoxy type finish that you can then paint. Honestly, I can't evangelize enough about this stuff, it works really really well and I recommend everyone to try it. If you're in the DC area, send me a PM, come over and I will coat an item for you to show you. Seriously. A lot of people in the BMW world talk about POR15, well it says it in the name. Paint-Over-Rust. Doesn't say anything about converting the rust. POR15 gives a great durable finish on top of the Mar-Hyde converted rust though. But definitely not as the only finish. |
From the info they give on it it sounds like it's just latex paint mixed with phosphoric acid. Have you compared it to ospho or similar phosphoric acid product? |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22639
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:45 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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Saved by Daves is common, and almost palindromic.
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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Well crap.
I just went through and Fluid Filmed all three of my old VWs.
I know it isn't wonderful for if painting is in the near future, but I know that I am at least a few years away from being able to do anything like that. And in the mean time, I will likely have to drive each of them from time to time in winter conditions.
So I figure that by the time it comes time to paint, a lot of it will be worn away, and hopefully the rest can be dealt with by copious amounts of solvent. Maybe I can buy a pool and dunk them!
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
Well crap.
I just went through and Fluid Filmed all three of my old VWs.
I know it isn't wonderful for if painting is in the near future, but I know that I am at least a few years away from being able to do anything like that. And in the mean time, I will likely have to drive each of them from time to time in winter conditions.
So I figure that by the time it comes time to paint, a lot of it will be worn away, and hopefully the rest can be dealt with by copious amounts of solvent. Maybe I can buy a pool and dunk them! |
Yeah, I admit the Daves really taught me something new here. I really thought that Fluid Film or paint would be the same difficult to remove later. I think what you can do now is just keep putting on the FF every 3 or 4 years and never bother with paint ???
My own underbody oiling was just a light spray of cheap cooking oil mixed with paint thinner 5050 so I am sure this is nowhere near as had to remove as actually fluid film... and I was not able to spray it everywhere down there. Having said that I was astonished at how well it protected the van from rust. Stopped it all in it's tracks!
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What I have now decided to do is to just buy some good quality rust converter in as large a quantity as possible (at least 1 litre), and brush it on everywhere there is rust --- and leave it at that. Keep doing this every year until I can finally grind and paint.
I don't think I will spray rust converter because I would be concerned about getting onto any rubber parts.
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4348
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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Give your local Sherwin Williams a call, they usually stock Ospho in the gallon. I found that out a few days after I got mine through Amazon..
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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I ended up at Canadian Tire and all they had was something called "METAL RESCUE" which looks like a kind of metal "bath", for rust removal. It says "not acid", "not harmful to the environment" etc etc so it is probably not very strong. But that is all they had. I bought 4 litres... and sprayed it on all the rust under the body... I didn't spray any oil or primer... but I intend to tackle this rust properly first thing next august so let's hope it won't advance too much over the winter.
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jlrftype7
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 3576
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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| epowell wrote: |
| I ended up at Canadian Tire and all they had was something called "METAL RESCUE" which looks like a kind of metal "bath", for rust removal. It says "not acid", "not harmful to the environment" etc etc so it is probably not very strong. But that is all they had. I bought 4 litres... and sprayed it on all the rust under the body... I didn't spray any oil or primer... but I intend to tackle this rust properly first thing next august so let's hope it won't advance too much over the winter. |
Was the fluid milky white in color? And did your Rust Change Color a bit after applying the Fluid to it?
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto |
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Alternative home-made recipe for rust conversion? |
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| jlrftype7 wrote: |
| epowell wrote: |
| I ended up at Canadian Tire and all they had was something called "METAL RESCUE" which looks like a kind of metal "bath", for rust removal. It says "not acid", "not harmful to the environment" etc etc so it is probably not very strong. But that is all they had. I bought 4 litres... and sprayed it on all the rust under the body... I didn't spray any oil or primer... but I intend to tackle this rust properly first thing next august so let's hope it won't advance too much over the winter. |
Was the fluid milky white in color? And did your Rust Change Color a bit after applying the Fluid to it? |
no it looked like water... and it just made the rust go dark brown. I suspect that it is pretty wimpy stuff > but perhaps that is a good thing because to save time I sprayed it on rather than very selectively applying it with a brush... so I did get on some rubber parts. So a stronger acid would probably be more damaging to the rubber.
I just wanted something strong enough to arrest the rust for 10 months until my next trip to BC.
[maybe white vinegar would have worked just as well??]
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