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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: mounting tires yourself |
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i've been changing motorcycle tires for years but have never tried changing car tires. after a summer of buying tires on clearance, including for the Vanagon, i had a stack of 20 tires in the garage for my family's cars and didn't want to pay the $20 per tire for mounting and balancing. yesterday, with a friend, tackled the hardest tires first... 4 Load Range E truck tires. after a learning curve, it was duck soup. yes, those $50 tire changers really work and it was surprisingly easy.
here's the $50 changer:
stack O' tires and balancer:
said duck soup Load Range E studded truck tire:
here's the key points ...
- use REAL tire lubricant. not Windex, not soap water, not WD40, not silicone spray. i'm using Ru-Glyde bought in the gallon jug and the stuff is truly slippery and rubber compatible.
- there's not a good video on YouTube on how to use every aspect of the changer properly, including the lock down device and use of the demount spud. i should make a video but what i found was always incorrect on SOME point.
- the changer MUST be bolted down to the floor!! some serious torque is put on the base and needs 4 concrete anchors.
- if the bead breaking is stubborn, take small bites and rotate the tire 30 degrees or so. trying to break a rilly stubborn bead WILL bend the spud! lesson learned.
- bubble balancing is a lost art and if you can find an old Coats in nice shape, grab it. they are pricey on eBay but beat the pants off of the $70 Chinesium balancers commonly available. there is a bit of finesse to bubble balancing and i can see why the industry went to electronic balancers so any tire monkey can balance a tire. but i've had so many poorly balanced tires from the electronic ones i wanted to start balancing my own. i talked to the one shop i'd found that seemed to balance okay and they said the machines need to be calibrated every 6 months. i KNOW that doesn't happen in most tire shops. plus, i take the time to clean the rim of dirt, buff the bead sealing surface, file any imperfections, and generally do the things a tire shop just won't take the time to do on your tires.
- it takes a small toolbox of doo dads to do this right. valve stem removers, locking open air chucks, an air compressor with air shut off valve, can of bead sealer, etc.
- Vanagons don't have TPMS but with a $55 sensor programmer and $30 clone-able sensors, i can either mount my own snows on rims with cloned sensors or in the case of my Civic, replace a bad sensor economically.
i know this isn't for everyone... but it is probably for more of us than i would've thought. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Borg Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 114 Location: Western Washington
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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I have pretty much the same set up. R-Glyde is great stuff with the added benefit of being vaguely soap-like so your hands (and rims) clean up nicely when you're done.
A little patience and lube will break the most stubborn bead. I've found the most frustrating part of the whole process is getting the new tire to seat on the rim, most often they'll just pop right on (really, the bead seats with a "pop") but then comes the stubborn one that fights every step of the way. Either not wanting to get that initial "set" to inflate or will only lock onto 80% of the rim. _________________ Steve |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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DanHoug wrote: |
- it takes a small toolbox of doo dads to do this right. valve stem removers, locking open air chucks, an air compressor with air shut off valve, can of bead sealer, etc. |
A variety of wheel weights...
I've changed many tires with that unit. The biggest flaw is the spider that's supposed to spread the clamping load down to the platen; after that, the next biggest flaw is the sloppy, floppy pin that goes through a lug hole to prevent rotation; finally, as you discovered, the thin-wall tube that they make the demount/mount iron out of bends VERY easily, and the "duckhead" iron to actually mount beads is just the worst design ever. I welded a lip of steel onto mine so that it wraps around the rim lip more completely and I never suffered another popout during installs.
Also, I would never recommend applying lube when breaking beads; for one thing, the lube absolutely will not go anywhere where it will help, as the tire bead is absolutely sealed against the rim bead at that point (yes, it's called the "rim bead"); secondly, the lube will inevitably go just where you DON'T want it, and that's on the sidewall where all it will do is cause the bead-breaker iron to keep slipping away from the bead, where you need it to stay...just watch the morons on youtube if you don't believe me.
Finally, having said all that, while I've successfully mounted tires on powder coated steelies without scratching them, I would never use it on polished alloys. So, I finally got sick of it and bought a European style turn-table rim-clamp machine, and a dynamic (electronic) balancer. Yes, I realize it's beyond most budgets if you only do a handful of tires every few years, but I can't risk damaging my wheels, and I'm too old (54) to wrestle with that tool (watch the youtube vids, they're hilarious).
One last thought: there's a guy on youtube who manufactures and sells a kick-ass duckhead attachment for that HF post, and it raises it to a whole new level...and yes, it's about 5x the cost of the HF tool to begin with, but quality and ease of use cost money, and it prevents damage to nice wheels.
I still use my HF post for little trailer tires. |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3790 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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I forgot to add, I cut that cheapo pin off, and I fabbed plates with lug holes which match the lug patterns, and bolt that to the platen. This way, the wheels are lugged down just like they'd be on a vehicle, rock-solid, and there is ZERO movement of the rim/tire during demount/mounting activity. I can post a picture if anyone is interested what one looks like . |
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SyncroButter Samba Member
Joined: February 02, 2016 Posts: 383 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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I've never used Ru-Glyde, but generally speaking the various "tire soap" products are also great for replacing window and windshield rubber. _________________ Grant
In the stable: 1986 Syncro Westfalia/Bostig, 1989 Doka Tristar, 1974 Vespa Rally 200, 1973 Vespa Primavera 125, 1963 Solex 2200, 1938 Buick Special
Gone but not forgotten: 1989 Porsche 944, 1973 Standard Beetle |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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Pretty much the same set-up for mine.
Sometimes the tires come tightly wrapped and take a 'set' with the beads very close together - so close it is impossible to get them to seat. To remedy this I use Coke cans to spread them for a day or two...
If you have a lift it is handy for breaking the bead - actually less violent and less chance of scraping the inside of the rim (which is bad with wire wheels):
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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we used a "fun noodle" foam swim toy to wrap around and seal the rather large gap to seat the bead in the truck rims. worked perfect! _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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T3 Pilot Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011 Posts: 1507 Location: Deep South of the Great White North
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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Hey Dan Houg,
I like your style and pile ‘O’ tires...
I stated using that tire changer a couple years ago and have done maybe 5 sets of tires with it. It is a good starting point but the first thing that I did was what a previous poster said about chucking the lock down collar and pin setup. I just marked and drilled the mounting plate with a VW wheel and installed 4 studs, cuz that is all you need. Having the wheel assembly bolted down and immobile was the key to a smooth install. I did a couple sets of steelies with that setup and the stock bar, but when it came to the nice wheels, I purchased a nomar mount bar. That bar, plus the judicious application of a quality lube works perfectly and is scratch free. Bead breaking using this unit is challenging as previously noted. Hey if the tire is really stuck just haul out the hi lift and it will move right. _________________ 1988 Vanagon
The most important part in every vehicle is the nut behind the wheel...... |
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dabaron Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2018 Posts: 2558 Location: Philly, mang
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
I use Coke cans to spread them for a day or two...
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Royal Crown Cola is not Coke. for shame referring to the superior RC as a Coke. boo. _________________ 1991 Vanagon GL Camper
i had no idea i wanted to be a mechanic
"burnin oil and cookin coils" -- Destructo
BiWerks Design, LLC |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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T3 Pilot wrote: |
Hey Dan Houg,
I like your style and pile ‘O’ tires...
I stated using that tire changer a couple years ago and have done maybe 5 sets of tires with it. It is a good starting point but the first thing that I did was what a previous poster said about chucking the lock down collar and pin setup. I just marked and drilled the mounting plate with a VW wheel and installed 4 studs, cuz that is all you need. Having the wheel assembly bolted down and immobile was the key to a smooth install. I did a couple sets of steelies with that setup and the stock bar, but when it came to the nice wheels, I purchased a nomar mount bar. That bar, plus the judicious application of a quality lube works perfectly and is scratch free. Bead breaking using this unit is challenging as previously noted. Hey if the tire is really stuck just haul out the hi lift and it will move right. |
i use NoMar paste lube for MC tires and it was a game changer. it was the only stuff that would allow the bead to "pop pop" on stubborn tires. i'll look at their bar, great tip! _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3426 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:29 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
Pretty much the same set-up for mine.
Sometimes the tires come tightly wrapped and take a 'set' with the beads very close together - so close it is impossible to get them to seat. To remedy this I use Coke cans to spread them for a day or two...
If you have a lift it is handy for breaking the bead - actually less violent and less chance of scraping the inside of the rim (which is bad with wire wheels):
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That’s genius. Ignore it when someone points out they aren’t Coke
Oh wait,too late. _________________ .ssS! |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:00 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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I had one of those cheesy Chinese red tire machines.
I guess they work, but for mounting at least, I just use a real Ken-Tool tire hammer.
I mounted a LOT of tires when I was 16 at my first job. Maybe 2 real tire spoons/ levers, but very often one can just get it over the bead with the rubber hammer.
I like the RC can idea.
But the answer for me: Starting fluid. It is so quick and easy. A little scary at first. Don't use a lot, gotta get it inside the tire a little. then spray a strip/ fuse out a foot onto the floor. I light with a long tip butane lighter.
Wham!
Sometimes it just sits there and burns. I carefully stomp on the side of the tire. While the fluid is sitting there on the bead burning. Kinda mixes up the air and gas to better mix. Wham.
A click on tire chuck would be nice. Take out the valve core, you might be able to seat it with that alone.
Not all tires are the same. Last ones were 185R-14C Thunderer Rangers. Hard to mount. I think they must have stiff carcases.
The other thing: If I ever find a good old manual Coats or other brand machine, I'll buy it. _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:31 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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Alan Brase wrote: |
But the answer for me: Starting fluid. It is so quick and easy. A little scary at first. Don't use a lot, gotta get it inside the tire a little. then spray a strip/ fuse out a foot onto the floor. I light with a long tip butane lighter.
Wham! |
i use starting fluid on my #^%$!! lawn tractor tire that goes flat and the bead retreats big time from the rim, works great and i just do it while it is still on the tractor. i didn't want to leave ether in the tire on my vehicles but used that fun noodle to fill in the gap on the truck tires that were far from the opposite bead. worked so nice. a length of heater hose would work on tires with a smaller distance needed to seal to the rim. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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kalispell365 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2010 Posts: 889 Location: PNW
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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An excellent lubricant to break stubborn beads is gasoline. It immediately seeps into the bead crevice as you start to break it, they pop right off. Silicone spray works wonders for a mounting lubricant, nice and clean and they slide right on without all the mess. Ive been changing tires on the ground with an old fashioned bead breaker and three Ken-Tool spoons since I was about 16.
Here is a modern version of my old bead breaker, they work excellent.
https://www.harborfreight.com/bead-breaker-92961.h...DGEALw_wcB _________________ 1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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I will do anything to save money. Mounting and balancing tires is not one of them. As a VW trainee, I mounted and balanced a lot of tires in my day. It is one of my least favorite things and I have access to an actual tire machine that does most of the work. I admire the willingness to do this DIY. _________________ ☮️ |
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pathao Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2012 Posts: 289 Location: Montreal, Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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$0 bead breaker
_________________ 1982 AC P27 - 2.0 FI FED - 091 - BA6
English is a second language to me |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 736 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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pathao wrote: |
$0 bead breaker
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Neat idea! That's the same color as my '78 Westy (before the engine fire turned it all black) _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4717 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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just an update that the $55 Autel MaxiTPMS Pad really does work to read the unique ID of mounted tire sensors thru the sidewall of the tire. and it clones Autel universal sensors with those same IDs if you want. it's probably the lowest cost option out there to have an extra set of sensors for wheels or to clone bad sensors. no re-learn process is needed when sensors are cloned, btw, so no need to get into the TPMS system of a vehicle, which other, more expensive scanners can do.
thankfully, Vanagons don't have TPMS. don't care for the majority of systems EXCEPT the ones that give you a continual display of the tire pressure on all 4 wheels. those are cool. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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truckersmike Elder Sambanite
Joined: March 16, 2001 Posts: 2025 Location: Bellingham, WA
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:51 am Post subject: Re: mounting tires yourself |
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Loving the thread and it is timely as I just bought new tires for my 82 that I want to install myself. In the past, I've had luck installing tires on my 59 DD panel and 67 Westy.
On the 59, I lowered the rear drum onto the tires to break the bead. They broke easily as they were squishy passenger tires. Then I had the rims powder coated so I took the new tires and rims to Wal-Mart and only had them mount the tires. At the time, they only charged $6-8 per tire (I don't think they do this any more). After I got them home, I threw in a few ounces of air-soft BB's into each tire after a VW friend told me that's how he "balances" them. I can't say that it works but I can say I've never felt a wobble going down the road. And every time I stop, there is a cool rain sound comes from the bus.
The 67 was much more difficult to break the beads on the D rated tires I had on. I tried the drum trick, using a jack to press up against something. What eventually did the trick was using my SUV to run over the edge of the tires. Using the weak mounting spoons from HB, it was difficult to get the tires off and on but I managed. My compressor is not very high pressure and I don't have one of those filling chucks but I still managed to get them all filled. Hindsight is 20/20 tho. These tires also have air-soft BB's in them and again, no wobble or vibration going down the road.
Now I'm trying to break the beads of these Vanagon tires and so far I'm failing using all my tricks. The rims are 15X8.5 and the tires are 205/70/15 passenger tires. I wouldn't think it would be this difficult but they are over 20 years old so maybe that has something to do with it. For this van, I might just give up and pay someone to do it for me. _________________ 59 DD panel. Former Romano's TV delivery bus
67 Westy SO-42 pop-t |
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