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Only starts when you release the key...
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Recently I was invited to help a buddy install an engine in a kubelwagen replica. After installing the engine, and running all new wires to a new ignition switch, the engine will crank and run beautifully...but only after you release the key. You can crank the engine for 30 seconds and it will never pop off, but release the key and she starts at the end.

My thinking is that the battery may be low, and although I have enough voltage to crank the car, the solenoid is robbing the ignition circuit of the power and when you release the key..BOOM the ignition coil gets the voltage it needs.

Just brainstorming here with you buggy freaks 😁. Opinions?

New blue coil
New electronic distributor
New engine 7.5:1 compression
New battery
New UNIVERSAL ignition switch
New battery cables
New wires front to back.

Starter solenoid trigger, fuel pump, and coil all on same leg of ignition switch.

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timcurtis67
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

The ignition is probably wired through the accessory position on the key switch. That only gets power when the switch is on and no power when the switch is in the start position.

Check the voltage at the coil while holding the key in the start position. You will see no power.
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Nothing is on the acc position, although I thought about running the fuel pump off of the acc position to allow more current to coil at cranking.

I checked (with a test light) for voltage at the coil while cranking and it was present but light was very dim.

Today we are going to charge the battery throughly and try again.
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Bad switch, I've seen this problem in a couple different makes of cars. The contacts inside don't line up when it's in the start position and when you release it they come back enough to connect, the engine is still spinning so it starts.

turn the key to the on position and use a remote switch to crank the starter. That will pinpoint the problem.

brad
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
Nothing is on the acc position, although I thought about running the fuel pump off of the acc position to allow more current to coil at cranking.

I checked (with a test light) for voltage at the coil while cranking and it was present but light was very dim.

Today we are going to charge the battery throughly and try again.


Use volt meter... IF it drops below about 8-9 volts its probably not going to start....


Pretty much agree with Slalombuggy on bad switch...OR to much voltage drop in system at "start" position .... Switch should put out power to coil in "start" position... If switch is working properly then reduced voltage to coil is issue... Might consider "hard start relay" to energise solenoid (or as silly as it sounds - power to coil) to take some of the load (voltage drop) off ignition system circuit to allow higher voltage to coil...

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M. on Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

He used 16 gauge wire front to back... might be too light of gauge wire.
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
He used 16 gauge wire front to back... might be too light of gauge wire.


I usually use 14 gauge to coil and to solenoid... Fuel pump is really not critical is carbs are "wet"...

Also what is coming from battery to ign switch, should be a at least 10 gauge... 8 gauge would be better...

We had a saying in telecommunications industry, "if in doubt of wire size go next gauge larger"..... Works with auto wiring too...

Dale
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Iíll run a 12 gauge wire to the coil just to test it out... if it cures the ill that will be a simple fix. Or maybe Iíll just run a wire from the alternator to temporarily test..
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Charged the battery and now works perfect.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

16ga is more than enough for the coil and the starter solenoid.

Put a voltage meter on them both while cranking and see what the voltages drop to if you want to know for sure.

brad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Quote:
Starter solenoid trigger, fuel pump, and coil all on same leg of ignition switch.


Weird that you say that it runs being wired like this...Ö

The lug that controls the solenoid will go dead after the starter is disengaged. With it being dead then how does the fuel pump and coil get power?
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

I misspoke. The coil and fuel pump are on the same leg...

Anyway with a good charge she runs perfect now. ..just touch the key and she fires...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

nice looking replica - was it used in film work? they usually like to put the balkankreuz on the sides...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:21 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
Charged the battery and now works perfect.


Should check alternator output... Should read about 14 VDC a little above idle speeds.... When it was wired was ALT lamp wired in?

Dale
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"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Alternator is working perfect. This car went underwater a few times during floods. Basically everything is new. I think the whole issue was that the battery was strong enough to crank this low compression engine but not enough to fire it off. We are doing all this hours away from home so tools for testing were limited.
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jspbtown
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Only starts when you release the key... Reply with quote

Quote:
I misspoke. The coil and fuel pump are on the same leg...


OK..that makes sense now
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