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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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To confirm, this white plastic piece is not polyethylene or polypropylene plastic?
Thanks
Neil.
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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allenw Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2016 Posts: 221 Location: Dalton, GA
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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Poly E or poly Prop is very flexible and pliable material, I would say that is a very rigid material so maybe ABS or a nylon product. |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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allenw wrote: |
Poly E or poly Prop is very flexible and pliable material, I would say that is a very rigid material so maybe ABS or a nylon product. |
Ok. Thanks. I think I know the "feel" of Poly E or Ploy prop. They're kind of slippery.
I only have a couple spare light holders so didn't want to futz around too much more in applying, removing, unsuitable types of epoxy. So far, the Permatex Cold Weld I just applied seems to be holding the pieces of metal to the plastic. That said, I'm using a different strategy now. (HVAC metal vs flattened #14 solid copper wire, the former having way more surface contact). Very few people would want or need to do this but I'm figuring a way to make new bulb contacts. Ya, too much time on my hands!
Neil.
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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82westyrabbit Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2015 Posts: 969 Location: Ma
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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Are those solid aviation rivets you are using? Good work. John |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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82westyrabbit wrote: |
Are those solid aviation rivets you are using? Good work. John |
Thanks. Those are the OE posts on the plastic bulb holder.
Making those contact bits is a little fussy. I used too much epoxy but they're holding quite well; less material contact and epoxy should work fine.
Copper wire or maybe copper foil would be better in some ways. Copper foil:
https://www.amazon.com/Freely-Copper-Foil-Conductive-Adhesive/dp/B06XQB46SL
but 1.5 mm may be too thick?
Failure mode of the blue ribbon is somewhat random but bulb contact failure is relatively common. This repair is a bit of a kludge but possibly viable for DIY types. The OE bulbs are still easy to get and can throw enough light for most peoples needs.
I don't like that the contact bits are exposed but they should stay in place, nearby area is plastic and the 58b circuit is fused on '85 and up. I added a fuse on that circuit (this is for my '81)
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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82westyrabbit Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2015 Posts: 969 Location: Ma
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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Yes I see that on closer inspection. Good work anyways. John |
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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Thanks John.
The Permatex Cold Weld held the contacts on but with medium effort, I could pull off a contact piece. A push on retaining clip at each post might hold each contact piece in place if the epoxy bond fails due to vibration and sunlight heat.
The HVAC sheet metal was just thick enough to make the light work but gently pushing the bulb base sideways would break contact. I think the HVAC steel was 26 gauge, not sure.
Neil. _________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Dash Light Bulb Holder: not polyethylene or polypropylene? |
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Goal: use easily obtainable material, basic hand tools, to show it can be done by the average DIY or shade tree type. It's fussy work that "pays" poorly so I'd guess that most people would likely just buy an aftermarket solution for the entire cluster.
I haven't checked bulb fit yet or tested but it should work. A slightly thicker metal might be better; I found that with one contact doubled up in thickness, moving the bulb would not cause it go to out. I didn't do this on these parts; I don't think road vibration will cause the light to flicker on/off. I saw slight differences in bulbs I had on hand so used what looked like the most recent (newest) type.
Used Permatex 5 Minute "general" epoxy.
https://www.permatex.com/products/adhesives-sealants/epoxies/permatex-5-minute-gap-filling-epoxy/
I may cover some of the exposed metal with epoxy. Maybe. These will connect via wires with push on connectors at each end, to the 58b circuit. To enable cluster removal, they will disconnect at end of wire to circuit, not at bulb holder.
My dash light dimmer is non op. I'll measure "full" brightness of a rheostat in known good switch against resistance of using a direct connection to 58b. My thinking: if resistance of "full on" at rheostat is significantly more than direct wiring, (bypass rheostat) I'd install a switch to bypass the rheostat for day light driving purposes, should I ever bother to replace the light switch. That said, I'd wonder if full voltage would cause the bulb to wear out sooner.
Making the parts took some time but once a template was made, it took less time. Regardless, I had to trim each piece and the pieces are obviously slightly different. Using aviation snips was not ideal. I'm sure there's a better tool.
Drilling the hole first then using this type of jig was helpful. Work is supported with 2x4 in my bench vise.
Hole in part is slightly smaller than post. Using a small socket to push part in place helped.
I found push on clips locally that pretty much fit (allow for bulb to turn during install) but I don't think they're really needed. This still shows too much epoxy; any blobs of epoxy can get in the way of installing the bulb. (twisting it in place). Looking at that part again, I think more metal could be removed at areas near post where bulb passes when twisted in place. And, I'd bevel the edges at metal where bulb contacts pass when bulb is twisted in place.
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10379 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: Dash Light Repair: Bypass Blue Ribbon |
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Vanagon Nut wrote: |
It's fussy work that "pays" poorly ....
.... A slightly thicker metal might be better ..... I don't think road vibration will cause the light to flicker on/off. I saw slight differences in bulbs I had on hand .... blobs of epoxy can get in the way of installing the bulb. (twisting it in place). Looking at that part again, I think more metal could be removed at areas near post where bulb passes when twisted in place. |
Thanks to djkeev and kamzcab86 for details of the bulb holder et al;
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8537534&highlight=instrument+cluster#8537534
It seems I'd been installing the holder incorrectly by folding the hinged piece under than installing.
If the mods feel this is a viably useful thread for dash light repair, feel free to change the title. I don't think I can do so.
The bulbs work and pushing them laterally does not cause them to go off.
Too much epoxy between the metal base and plastic and a wider bulb base on "newer" style bulb caused poor fitment of that bulb. Even with that metal removed (tricky!) I had to carefully use pliers to twist it in place. This may explain why I've found some of these bulbs to be a "tight" fit to the OE non modified holder.
What may be the older style bulb and fit
what is likely a "newer" style bulb. IIRC, various VW's and possibly Mercedes use these. Yes the bulb is slightly off angle in callipers but it is wider at base
_________________ 1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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