Heater Showdown - Propex, Chinese diesel heater, Espar, Buddy

[shagginwagon83]

I had a great time camping this summer. I'm wanting to extend my camping season by adding a gas heater to my van.

Keep in mind these is no 'right solution' for everyone!!

Gas vs diesel vanagons.
Westfalia vs tin top.
Weekend warrior vs full time van living.

Help me update this list! Comment below pros/cons that should be added to this list!

The list below list is in order from $ to $$$.

Heater Buddy - $70+
Pros:
Great for taking the edge off (before bed and in AM).
You can buy locally (Cabelas, Walmart, Craigslist)
Uses 1lb propane bottles, can use adapter to run off bigger tank
No electricity needed

Cons:
Not recommended to use while sleeping.
Pumps a lot of water into the air (RUST)

Options:
Little Buddy $70
4,000/9,000-BTU

Big Buddy $100+
4,000/9,000/18,000-BTU

Summary: I currently have the big buddy. It gets the job done - but moisture in the air is just accelerating rust. I try not to use it. Lot's of people love them!

"Like all propane heaters without external venting, the “Little Buddy” produces water vapor during operation; burning an entire 1-lb. propane fuel cylinder will produce about 26 ounces of water. Though invisible and harmless, this vapor will condense on cold interior surfaces such as walls and windows, so just be prepared to towel off your windows before driving in the morning." -campwestfalia.com.

If you're interested in the buddy heater, please read this great article from a great website ran by a samba member here - campwestfalia.com


Cheap Diesel heater - <$200
Pros:
Crazy cheap
Exhaust goes outside
Thermostat
4k/8k options
If you're running a diesel engine, then tap right into the gas tank
Can run all night.
Cons:
Aux battery setup needed.
Diesel fuel tank needed
Uses 12V power, like most gas heaters
I may have read somewhere that these get gunked up and require cleaning every now and then? Can someone confirm, if not i'll remove this statement.
If a part inside breaks, how easily can you find part?


Propex - $750+
Pros:
Great option for Westfalia campers with propane tanks
Good output
Exhaust goes outside
Thermostat option
Has option for 'external unit' (less noise inside van)
Can run all night.
Cons:
Aux battery setup needed.
Westfalia propane tank is not super easy to refill
Uses 12V power, like most gas heaters


Summary: Great and easy option for Westfalia owners. You'll need an aux battery setup also. Clean heat. If you have a new propane tank, this would be a great choice.

However a recent trend has been removing the propane tank and oem fridge then switching to an electric fridge. The stove is setup to run off 1lb canisters. There is also weight reduction on the driver side from removing the propane tank (less westy lean).



Gas/Petrol heaters (Webasto, Espar) - $700+
Pros:
Taps into gas tank, easy to refill tank
Thermostat option
Exhaust goes outside
Can run all night.
I believe there are cheap Chinese version if you're a gambling man
If you
option for altitude adjustment
Might be able to find parts at espar/webasto dealer (or online).
option to send text message to your heater (with gsm module) to turn on your heater. Think about that, similar to push to start, but with a text message and your heater - Lookup Webasto Airtop GSM module.
Cons:
Aux battery setup needed.
Price - which is same as Propex compared to cheap Chinese heater

Summary:
Great choice for anyone running petrol/gasoline! Kinda on the high end compared to cheap Chinese.




Personally I plan on running a Webasto Airtop 2000. Yeah its more expensive than a cheap diesel heater. However I wont need a separate fuel tank. Taps right into the gas tank for fuel. It consumes little gas, but a decent size of electricity. I removed my Westfalia propane tank. I'm going to use that space to make a custom gray water tank/ shower water tank/ external box for my webasto airtop 2000. My 115ah aux battery system can handle it.

I'm going to buy a digital thermostat and install the GSM module so I can send text message to van that will turn on the heater and warm up before I get back.

I'm just waiting for the 15% ebay coupon code before I buy my gas heater from the russian federation.

What heater did you go with? Comment below with your experiences!
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[dobryan]

I am in with the gas heater. I will sell my propex and two saddle tanks. Do not see much downside to using a gas heater if it is maintained. If I had a 30
year old one I would be nervous.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[shagginwagon83]

I was sold after our conversation about heaters. I'll have one soon!
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[jimf909]

My propane just ran out today while I was testing my Propex 2211 making me like the idea of a gas or diesel heater that taps into the engine’s fuel tank. The cheap diesel heaters sure are attractive due to cost and it sounds like they’re toasty. For now, I’ll stick with the Propex. I went with it because I like how it mounts outside the van and doesn’t consume valuable space inside.

No matter how you slice it, heat is nice...

_________________
- Jim

[erste]

I like my (used) espar D2 heater and kit that I pieced together. Has thermostat and high altitude sensor and is on an aux. tank even though my tintop is a diesel. Makes it easier to run kerosene this way, but not so easy to fill because of the location of the tank (behind the RR tire). I put an outlet at the floor and one at bed height and that's been really nice.

However, it makes noise. This doesn't bother me AT ALL, but it might bother other nearby campers. So sometimes I think twice about using it, just like I think twice about opening and closing the sliding door after quiet hours in a crowded campground.

This is one of the reasons I have a 12v heated blanket. Plug it in half hour before getting into bed and it's usually plenty warm.

I'm glad Mr. Buddy made the list. I had a Mr. Buddy single tank heater and it's fine unless you're doing any serious winter camping or you forgot to pack the bedding. A couple of snowy nights in Denver was no problem. Never ran it through the night, just warmed up the interior and shut it off before bedtime, always with a window cracked open when running.

Main thing I'd suggest in all cases is to get a CO / LP gas monitor.

[syncrodoka]

Complete eberspacher b1l kit for $500 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F254171757615
Comes with extra unneeded parts to install into a john deer gator. Gas version so it is plug and play, no extra gas tank needed to mess with.

[SyncroChrick]

[74 Thing]

[Sodo]

Excellent thread!
A couple other interesting comparisons for each heater type:

- "amps draw" of the heaters
- inside noise
- outside exhaust noise

But "noise level" is extremely subjective....
Those who enjoyed their "project", often have a higher tolerance for the resultant noise.
Some people are light sleepers, bothered by "systems running" (that they did not install.... )
It's subjective.

I have a Propex 2211 (under the floor) which mounted outside the van, on rubber noise isolators.
I don't know if rubber mounting made it quieter, it just seemed like the thing to do.
And I've never done a listening test (compare it to a 'solid mount").
I like it, and my van has a Propane tank already.
Install thread: Propex 2211 heater install under floor (many pics!)
It's "not loud" but it would be even nicer if it had a low-power + low-noise mode.
My home forced-air ventilation system (new) has a quiet mode where the fan runs very low, for longer times, is whisper-quiet.

[Steve M.]

[Steve M.]

Do a You Tube search for RV condensation. There is a very good, but boring talk about it from somebody. Essentially just breathing can add a lot of condensation over a weekend.
_________________
This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.

[syncrodoka]

[westyventures]

[Syncro Jael]

I have used a Mr. Buddy. My wife said it still made exhaust fumes and didn't like it in the van. I also did not like the moisture that it put off.

So we spent some bucks on the Propex HS2800. I went with the largest model because we winter camp a lot. High elevation camping in the Rockies usually get us in the below -0° range often. The Propex has been flawless running at altitudes up above 10,000 ft. The heat was sufficient until we got around 20°f. Then we would have to pop the top down for it to keep from running constant. I also purchased twin GoWesty over-sized saddle tanks to feed the heater. Never knowing how much propane you have left always was a concern. I also purchased the Fanchers tent insulation kit. It helped but sleeping on the upper berth in the winter was still cold, especially at the rear of the pop-top. The only complaints we had with the Propex was the constant cycling on and off, and the huge temperature swing between cycling. It would get really cold before it would kick on again. The thermostat was mounted at the top of the hanging locker.

I heard the buzz about the Chinese Diesel Heaters. So I spent $165 and got one. I ran it for days in my shop on high. Then pulled the Propex, saddle tanks, and mounted in the exact footprint of the Propex. It has been flawless for all of last winter and again this year. I have the 8kw model. All they did was turn the air-fuel up to make more heat. I have since adjusted the air-fuel to burn clean. I have only had it smoke a couple times. Driving with the heater on the wind blew the flame out. I have since adjusted the exhaust and have not had any further issues. It sips fuel and instead of cycling on and off. It runs full bore until the thermostat set temp is reached, then ramps down to it's low setting. It is very quiet on low. When the van gets cold again it will ramp up to high and repeat this cycle if it is really cold. Anything above 35°f ambient and it is too much heat for the van. We just open a window. Below 35 and it will just run on low unless it gets much colder. At around 15°f you can hear it cycle. This really depends on your insulation. But with the pop-top up and Fanchers insulation. It would easily keep the upper bunk warm. Complaints about the diesel heater are the pump ticks. I spent a lot of effort to mount it forward and under the van so not to hear it. Other than that I have had no issues with this heater, and it really does get hot.

I never did go the Webasto, or Espar route. To much money for what they are and a few people I know had trouble with them at altitude. I am sure it is just a setting.

My Diesel Heater fuel tank. I use a 50/50 blend of Kerosene and #1 Diesel. It has never sooted up, ever.

Diesel Fuel Tank:

Filler for Diesel Tank:

Exhaust:

Winter camping is GREAT!

Most of the time!

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[Sodo]

Syncro jael, your reports are always awesome!
And then there's good pics too (in the wild!!).
And often; masterful photography.

[westyventures]

[Sodo]

Cold air return is even shorter, (half the length of the hot air "U").
Of course quieter is better, but I'm SOL (I think) on quieting it with ducting.
I'm alright with the sound, because I installed it.
That's how it works.
Plus it's the sound of comfort.

What regulator should I get?
Do you have them?
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[rmcd]

Some Chinese diesel parking heaters have a remote start. I will be using this!

And per the Walmart ad. “ Two working modes: air condition mode & heater mode.”.

Maybe just pulling in outside air by running the fan? Put that on the pro list.


Walmart. https://www.walmart.com/ip/5KW-12V-Air-Diesel-Heat.../739624849

Cons. Not sure one can be installed to feed the oem ducts up front.
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[ZsZ]

Cheap chinese heaters can gunk up on low rpm. The air/fuel ratio is not perfect and a lot of soot produced.
You can tweak the settings to have cleaner flame, but the best to buy a small 2kW one and run it on full power most the time.
_________________
Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[Sodo]

ZxZ thanks for that note regarding if you run a (too-large) diesel heater at low-power.
That's something to watch for.