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Vladiiiii Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 518 Location: Munich, Germany
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:57 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Wow, such a difference between what was advertised and what ended up in the garage It's such a shame to have to completely restore it, especially considering the price
Even with those surprises, I bet the metal underneath isn't as bad as mine, so there's hope after all! If no newspaper material or bonded-over riveted rusty panels are found underneath the paint layers, then it's half bad
Maybe I missed this detail in all these pages, but will it keep the same color? And by the way, the dash is truly superb. I know it's all about taste, but this modification seems (to me) much nicer than what the normal VW originality police might accept Gives the car a truly early 60's style.
Keep up the work! _________________ Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746 |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:46 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Vladiiiii wrote: |
Wow, such a difference between what was advertised and what ended up in the garage It's such a shame to have to completely restore it, especially considering the price
Even with those surprises, I bet the metal underneath isn't as bad as mine, so there's hope after all! If no newspaper material or bonded-over riveted rusty panels are found underneath the paint layers, then it's half bad
Maybe I missed this detail in all these pages, but will it keep the same color? And by the way, the dash is truly superb. I know it's all about taste, but this modification seems (to me) much nicer than what the normal VW originality police might accept Gives the car a truly early 60's style.
Keep up the work! |
Thank you for your supportive words Vlad. Yes, I paid way, way too much. My poor judgement in trusting this supposed expert. Anyone thinking of doing business with this seller should think twice.
Luckily the car is not a total basket case. The paint has not yet been completely stripped, but so far we are not finding any more unexpected bad surprises. There is 5 coats of paint plus layers of primer so it will all go down to bare metal.
The dash is attractive for sure. Unique but I am told that a few very early Ghias actually came from the factory with this exact dash, but I don't know if that is true? I do know of one other exact same dash on a low light, but don't know the origins of that dash. I agree with you though, it gives the car a very early classic appearance.
The car originally was yellow which I like, but I'm keeping the Ivory color. Ivory with black interior and black canvas top add to that "Classic early appearance" - IMO anyway.
If any one has knowledge of this dash / gauge arrangement being used on early Ghias from the factory or dealer modified per VW specs, please post it. It would nice to have added information. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13955 Location: Southampton U.K.
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:38 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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John Moxon wrote: |
Marcdeb wrote: |
If any one has knowledge of this dash / gauge arrangement being used on early Ghias from the factory or dealer modified per VW specs, please post it. It would nice to have added information. |
Nope not factory on early Ghias and TBH any other era. The two outer 52mm dials are custom but as you say, they look fine. |
Might VW have offered or include a Tachometer on Karman Ghias? If so, where did they install them?
The other car I've seen with this dash arrangement just happens to be a Low Light car on the seller's website, (Richard Troy): That is probably very revealing!!
http://ghiacoachworks.com/ . Please do not mistake this as an endorsement.
Richard appears to be very knowledgeable when it comes to Karmann Ghia history. I know: He is not always correct.
This is a quote by Richard Troy taken from the website advertising my car:
http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/cars/71_KG_cabriolet.html
Importantly, modification of the body in any way that would prevent it from "being returned to stock" fairly easily was refused. However, the buyer asked that the original stock dash - that was in pretty darned good condition, we think - be replaced with an early '60s dash. There was an engineering reason behind this; the guy doing the EV design wanted to put holes in the dash for more gauges and that wasn't going to work well with the original dash design. However, one of us owns an earlier Ghia that came from Karmann with two extra gauge holes in the dash, and so we could copy that using an earlier dash ... That was agreed to. And, so the dash was switched to one from 1962 and two additional holes were added in the stock locations Karmann had added additional gauges in, thus satisfying the EV system's requirements.
Just to be clear John, I'm not arguing. I think you're right. This dash arrangement is not likely to have come from VW or Karmann. But it does make for interesting conversation. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13955 Location: Southampton U.K.
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:03 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Well sad to say Richard has been seen to be very economical with the truth with this Ghia. To say Karmann would find time on an assembly line to accommodate the wishes of a customer to add a couple of extra gauges including the senders from the engine compartment and the modification to the stock wiring loom would seem pure fantasy. It would probably have been more believable if he had said the modifications were made by the supplying dealership before delivery. Whatever the truth it's a moot point as you're happy with the looks and not interested in changing it back to stock. _________________ John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Finally some updates. Bill has had a rough winter health wise. Nothing life threatening, but between not feeling his best and the cold and snow in Vermont, the car is not as far along as we thought it might be by now. The warmer weather and longer days is encouraging and progress is happening again. With the Covid-19 Corona Virus, many of us are stuck at home with more time on our hands so I'm glad I have this project to keep me busy. In the mean time, I've spent many hours researching the convertible top installation and I am ready to start on that as soon as the car is back in my garage. It will be my first convertible top installation ever but after all the research I've done, and all the great documentation from other members here, I'm confident that I will be able to pull off a decent job.
The pair of 1970 doors I picked up in Massachusetts are in very nice condition. Bill has the Drivers side door all prepped. The strip of metal that holds the window scraper seal had 3 inches of rust damage at the forward end. A new piece of metal has been welded in place. The door has been test fitted on the car and the fit is good. There was a few very small low spots in the door skin which were leveled and the door now has been sprayed with etching primer.
I actually like that these doors have the lock button at the rear top of the doors. It will go better with the earlier look of the dash. The other door will get prepped once the car has been turned around but from what we can see, it is in even better condition than the first door.
Bill called this week with a new surprise he uncovered while stripping the paint from the Drivers side front fender. The area above the head light has several small rust through areas. Fortunately, it is not too serious. I've seen much much worse in other builds. He will be cutting out the damaged area and welding in some metal.
I've been searching for some new kick panels for the rear seat which were removed by the PO. I think I finally have located a pair in decent shape. hopefully they will ship this week.
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Nice to see progress on your dream, Marc!
Sorry that the Ghost of Previous Owners is still haunting you though.
Can’t imagine what would be found if his other masterpiece was stripped down to the metal. Shudder to think. _________________ 1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Trylon wrote: |
Nice to see progress on your dream, Marc!
Sorry that the Ghost of Previous Owners is still haunting you though.
Can’t imagine what would be found if his other masterpiece was stripped down to the metal. Shudder to think. |
Thank you,
The body on your car has held up for quite a few yrs. What ever was done apparently was done well. The work you've done on your car is paying off. You really brought the paint back to life and now with the wheels, wow!! It really is sharp. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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I could use some advice please.
I have a headlight bucket with some rust damage at the top. I realize I could get a new repro but it's not bad enough for that. We are considering a few options.
1. the top of the fender has some rust that will be cut out and new metal welded in. If the hole is made a large enough, the top of the headlight bucket could be repaired without removing it from the fender. Not my first choice.
2. Remove the headlight bucket. Repair the top of the bucket with new metal and reinstall.
3. Leave the bucket in place. Grind away the rusted area of the bucket and weld a patch over it.
First photo is looking up at the inside top of the headlight bucket There was a piece of "Duct Tape" on the inside of the bucket to cover the damage. The rust was treated with rust converter. Then painted and the "Duct Tape" placed over the hole, which I peeled off today. There doesn't seem to be any new rust going on.
Second photo is the rusted area on the top of the fender.
Any suggestions on to best deal with this?
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Warmer weather and an end to mud season has finally arrived and I can get up to the body shop without getting stuck in the mud. Bill is working his way around the car stripping the 5 layers of paint and and repairing any rust or body damage he finds. So far it's been only minor issues. The rust over the LS Headlight and on the top side of the head light bucket has been replaced with new metal.
We were curious if there would be similar rust damage over the RS head light so Bill stripped that area and found no rust. However at some point in the past, under several coats of yellow paint, 3 small holes were drilled to pull a dent. Other than not welding the holes, the work was very well done with only minimal filler. Bill welded the holes.
The rear seat kick panels were missing on this car. Removed by the PO. After months of searching, I finally located a very clean set from NWGhiaGuy in Washington state. For being 50 years old, these are in great condition. Being "Cut" out of a parts car, there was excess metal attached along the top and sides which were easily removed. Perfect fit in the car.
I was able to remove the trunk seal but the left over gobs of adhesive had proven to be quite difficult to remove. When I called 3M to ask if they could recommend a product that would soften the adhesive, I was told it's permanent! No advice offered. After many searches, I generated a list of possibilities. Carb and choke Cleaner gave the best results. It dissolved the adhesive rather quickly but it also softened the paint so not a good option if you need to save the paint under the adhesive. Not a concern here though. I was using a wooden scraper to remove the softened adhesive, but then went to just wiping it off with paper towels, which did not damage the paint.
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3818 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Wow! You can find paper towels? _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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jeffrey8164 wrote: |
Wow! You can find paper towels? |
Funny story. Had to move my Mother into assisted living 5 yrs ago. In her golden yrs, she became a hoarder of paper products. We still have a few yrs worth left. hopefully stores will restock by then _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:24 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Good to see your car making its way slowly to the road!
Hope we do meet up as we planned some shining morning! _________________ 1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1647 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Looks like mud season is about to begin for Bill _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:08 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Trylon wrote: |
Good to see your car making its way slowly to the road!
Hope we do meet up as we planned some shining morning! |
That's still my plan, it just lacks a date??? Obviously you will get there before me. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Onceler wrote: |
Looks like mud season is about to begin for Bill |
Assuming you are referring to Bondo??
Bill painted a car for me in the early 80's. At that time he still did lead / pewter
work and was known in this area for some of the best quality work around. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Marcdeb wrote: |
Trylon wrote: |
Good to see your car making its way slowly to the road!
Hope we do meet up as we planned some shining morning! |
That's still my plan, it just lacks a date??? Obviously you will get there before me. |
I dunno, you’ve driven yours more than I have driven mine. And I seem to be in a holding pattern at the moment. _________________ 1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:29 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Marcdeb wrote: |
Bill painted a car for me in the early 80's. At that time he still did lead / pewter
work and was known in this area for some of the best quality work around. |
Wow, I thought for sure that was a lost art! _________________ 1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:50 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Trylon wrote: |
Marcdeb wrote: |
Trylon wrote: |
Good to see your car making its way slowly to the road!
Hope we do meet up as we planned some shining morning! |
That's still my plan, it just lacks a date??? Obviously you will get there before me. |
I dunno, you’ve driven yours more than I have driven mine. And I seem to be in a holding pattern at the moment. |
So far, I 've put 4 miles on my "Ready to Drive" Ghia.
You've done some really good work so far. Keep at it. Your car is much closer to being on the road than mine.
I know we'll get there. I'm having a great time working on the car, so driving it will be a great reward !!
Installing the top myself will be time consuming, but I plan to take it slow and do it right. It will slow things up, but I'm ok with that. I know I will enjoy it - well hopefully enjoy most of it!! _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1647 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Marcdeb wrote: |
Onceler wrote: |
Looks like mud season is about to begin for Bill |
Assuming you are referring to Bondo??
Bill painted a car for me in the early 80's. At that time he still did lead / pewter
work and was known in this area for some of the best quality work around. |
I should have added a smiley face. Not knocking on any of the work _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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