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obus 
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11070
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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Ian Godfrey
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006
Posts: 1137
Location: Melbourne Australia
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 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Marc, the back is probably straight forward, the torsion bars have sagged a bit and/or the torsion bushes are worn. I had a car that sagged a bit on the drivers side cos it was just me in all the time.
The front is less obvious, somebody may have removed a couple of leaves, but unlikely. It will be interesting to see if there are other theories... |
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Trylon
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019
Posts: 4853
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Perhaps OGhia eats Wheaties?
_________________
1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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I just assumed that O'Ghia was too high? But maybe it's Regatta that is too low? Or maybe after all these years they're all a little different and it's not anything to worry about?
O'Ghia had a rebuilt chassis and then the project sat for 10 years. Regatta has 54 years of carrying the weight of the car. Is that even a factor?
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| Marcdeb wrote: |
I just assumed that O'Ghia was too high? But maybe it's Regatta that is too low? Or maybe after all these years they're all a little different and it's not anything to worry about?
O'Ghia had a rebuilt chassis and then the project sat for 10 years. Regatta has 54 years of carrying the weight of the car. Is that even a factor? |
Almost all old VWs end up with sagging asses and need to have the torsion bars reset. It’s not that difficult but is a bit of work.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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mxl556
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:09 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Marc, the ride height difference may be because '71 sits on gas shocks and '68 has stock low pressure oil shocks. I did see the difference in the ride height of my '73 coupe when I swapped gas KYB's for stock Cofap shocks a while ago. Front is lower now.
Does your '71 rides stiffer?
Check what kind of shocks both cars have and it may answer the question.
Max |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Thanks Max,
I'm sure the 68 has its original shocks. I'm not sure What's on the 71, I've not had a chance to get under and really get a good look but they are grey and I don't see any brand. I'll have to get under it and get a better look. I would like to get the front down eventually.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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mxl556
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 7:18 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| Sounds like KYB gas ones, mine were grey and raised the front a little (maybe back too). |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:17 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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What would you suggest I use instead Max? I don't mind the back being a bit higher actually.
I would leave the back as is.
Can't really say if the 71 rides stiffer as I've not put enough miles on it. The interior is still not installed either so it's noisy with so many pieces missing.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| Marcdeb wrote: |
What would you suggest I use instead Max? I don't mind the back being a bit higher actually.
I would leave the back as is.
Can't really say if the 71 rides stiffer as I've not put enough miles on it. The interior is still not installed either so it's noisy with so many pieces missing. |
Would have come with oil shocks. Wolfsburgwest sells the correct ones for type 1. Gives a nice smooth ride. I always found gas shocks to give too harsh of a ride for a VW. Cars are too light.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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mxl556
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:36 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| Marcdeb wrote: |
What would you suggest I use instead Max? I don't mind the back being a bit higher actually.
I would leave the back as is.
Can't really say if the 71 rides stiffer as I've not put enough miles on it. The interior is still not installed either so it's noisy with so many pieces missing. |
Marc, if you decide to change them, like Braukuche said- use oil shocks. Unless you are looking for performance (then Bilstein is the way to go). I am currently using Cofap Brazil (OE apparently), bought them from KGPR a few years ago. They seem fine, much softer than KYB's were. Another option is Sachs Automatic (or whatever they are called now in blue boxes with a blue sticker). They may be better quality that Cofap, I have not used them on the VW but using them on other cars. High quality OEM part.
Max |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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OGhia is getting more attention now that Regatta is officially off the road. Back in May, work on installing the guts back into the doors was going slow. I couldn't get the window carriers to slide on the window tracks very well.
So picking up where I left off. I compared the tracks and carriers to a set of painted spares that worked very well, but the spares are painted black and I had already put a lot of effort into cleaning up the ones that came with the car so I didn't want to switch. Turns out all the nylon sliders were binding. The nylon blocks were rough and looked terrible so I shaved them smooth with a Stanley blade and that made all the difference.
Before:
After:
I installed the window regulators, tracks, felts, anti rattle plugs as well as the interior and exterior door handle hardware. It's really not complicated, but I didn't do any home work and I ended up putting the glass on and off the track carrier several times due to not installing everything in the right order. I was too excited to see parts going back in I guess!
71's use 2 anti rattle plugs on the interior side of the glass. The first pair I put in on the passenger door were very difficult to install. With some Vaseline and some small pry tools, I was able to get them in and they worked great. On the drivers door, the plugs went in much easier and I noticed that they were much softer. I thought these were better but when the window went up and down, the plugs would come out. Turns out I had 2 different brands of reproduction plugs.
The ones that are soft and went in easy didn't work and they were branded "KG". The harder ones worked as expected for my 71 doors. Maybe other years would be different?
Next I had trouble with the clips on the new felts not being crimped on tight enough. I had put them on a year ago using end cutting pliers to press them in place. Seemed to do the job but once I was trying to push the buttons into the door, they didn't seem sturdy enough. I came up with another method that seemed to work really well: I used a small just large enough so that the button would sit into the socket, put a large screwdriver tip over the toothed back and then gave it a good blow with a hammer. They don't move at all now.
Next I started getting ready to install the window scraper seals and chrome moldings. Well, of course, it would have been an unusual day if I didn't get PO'd again. I'm sure it won't be the last time. Anyway, I had everything I needed, new seals, chrome moldings and clips, but I discovered that the chrome moldings I have are not for a 71. They were on the car when it arrived but they are for a different year.
The PO had done a crappy make shift installation. Due to rust, the metal support strips in the window opening were completely gone. Rather than repair the doors, (which I did) he put the seals on anyway with wrong parts and in the process butchered a brand new set of seals. I knew it was done incorrectly and had bought new seals a long time ago, but I didn't realize that the chrome moldings he put on the car were not correct. Nice set of moldings though,  but they have a short lip that curves upward to support a rubber scraper seal. I'm now on the hunt for the correct scraper moldings. Someone mentioned that they might be one year only moldings for the 1960 model Karmann Ghia, but I'm not sure.
If I was to do it all again, I would definitely get the job done in much less time. Adjusting the windows was actually much easier than I expected. It's a relief to finally see door handles on the door exterior. Even nicer to be able to open and close the door from inside and outside. LOL.
I'm leaving the door cards off until the interior is completely done. I have a beautiful, original pair of 71 door cards and I don't want to accidently damage them while working on the rest of the interior.
In the meantime, the weather has been cooperating and I've had OGhia out for a couple of test drives. Having door windows in place has made the car much quieter. I've gotten so used to shifting the AutoStick that I'm having to think about my shifting. I'll have to find a shifter know that has the shift pattern on it.
At least now, she looks complete on the outside. I even gave her a no-hose bath. First time I've washed OGhia since she arrived in Vermont.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Those are 60 only scrapers for sure. No one makes the correct rubber so a lot of guys use later scrapers unless they get lucky and find NOS.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Those are 60 only scrapers for sure. No one makes the correct rubber so a lot of guys use later scrapers unless they get lucky and find NOS. |
How are window scrapers being installed on 1960 Ghias? I'm thinking the doors could be equipped with a metal strip as on the 61 and later cars in order to install the later seals with later chrome moldings???
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Working on the back seat area. When the car was stripped down 14 or so years ago, it was being converted to an electric car. The electric motor was already installed but the project hit a road block and the 1600DP engine was put back in the car. The back seat area however had been cut up for more battery space - the rear seat towers as well as the kick panels where the heat pipes open up into to the back seat were cut out and lost. New replacements were not easy to find, especially the rear seat towers which are usually rotted in that area, but I finally found everything I was missing.
I found some original heat pipe insulating material. Not all in great shape but useable. I installed them using black tie wraps in an effort to keep the car as original as I can.
I was fortunate enough to find an original set of floor tar boards as well as all the tar boards that go over the wheel humps and under the rear window. Even though several years all used the same parts, everything I found actually came from 71 parts cars.
Even was able to find the small card board pieces that go above the wheel wells, behind the sides of the head liner. Not sure what purpose these serve though?
Before anything else gets installed, the interior needs a serious vacuuming and cleaning.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:30 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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I used bitumen to restore the original tar boards from my car. You can use a heat gun to melt the board into the right shape to conform with curved surfaces and the heat will soften the board so it kinda glues in place. it ends up looking nice and black, like new.
Wear gloves. Have a wet rag handy in case you have to douse any flames.
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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TRS63
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2017
Posts: 999
Location: Stuttgart - Germany
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:16 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Super nice work Marc. The sound deadening looks factory.
The 1960 scrapers had one year only rubber seals that had a groove that fit in that raised lip. I don’t recall if they clipped in or slid over screw heads on the body.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:42 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
Super nice work Marc. The sound deadening looks factory.
The 1960 scrapers had one year only rubber seals that had a groove that fit in that raised lip. I don’t recall if they clipped in or slid over screw heads on the body. |
Yes, all the tar boards are factory original. the set of 4 floor tar boards came out of a car in CT. The rest of the pieces are from a 1971 vert that is being parted out in Vermont. This poor car spent most of it's life in Massachusetts's and eventually got parked in a field to rot - and rot it did.
The 1960 window scrapers I have are exactly the same underneath. The same track for clips as the 61 to 71 have. When I got the car 3 years ago they were actually mounted on my doors using the same clips that is used on later cars so I wouldn't be surprised if the 1960 doors have the same holes.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3035
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:43 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
I used bitumen to restore the original tar boards from my car. You can use a heat gun to melt the board into the right shape to conform with curved surfaces and the heat will soften the board so it kinda glues in place. it ends up looking nice and black, like new.
Wear gloves. Have a wet rag handy in case you have to douse any flames.
Nicholas |
Anyone have a good source for a product similar to what is over the center tube?
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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