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moogie32 Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2005 Posts: 663 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Oh, wow, Marc - she's really taking shape! The bumpers look awesome! You'll be cruising with the rest of us before you know it!!! _________________ RIP HBB (1984-2009)
Du liefst so gut
Du warst so schön
Doch leider musst du von uns gehn |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9653 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Excellent work on the rear bumper cleaning/painting and assembly. It looks like it sits flat on the carpet, indicating that it's level and not slightly bent. Did you chase the threads in the front of the blades with M8 x 1.25 mm tap so that the bolts fit easily? And the 2 small holes in the apron with M6 x 1.0 mm for the overrider support bolts? Anti-seize on each bolt's threads for rust avoidance?
To mount the bumper, I recommend that you loosen the bolts that hold the rear blades to the center blade and pry them apart so that the blade front ends point outward as much as the blades' bolt holes allow. Slide some winter socks over the front of the blades so that when you start to bring the bumper to the body, the blades won't contact the paint. Once you have all bumper points fastened to the body hand-tight, close the engine lid, step back about 5' and get onto your knees/crouch. Sight along the bumper blade upper edge and along the center towel bar so that the sight lines are parallel to the engine lid bottom edge, since you know that is level with the ground.
Then go around to either side of the car, crouch again, and view that the side blades are horizontal to the ground. Repeat on the other side. Make minor fitment adjustments by gently smacking the bumper with your hand. When everything is aligned, tighten all bolts so that the adjustments are firm. |
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Vladiiiii Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2019 Posts: 518 Location: Munich, Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:26 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Those bumpers look great, and the rest of the car anyway
That air filter housing is also perfect
Time for spring/summer
Vlad _________________ Vlad's 72 Ghia (Once in a Lifetime Restoration topic)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9237746#9237746 |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:35 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Rome wrote: |
Excellent work on the rear bumper cleaning/painting and assembly. It looks like it sits flat on the carpet, indicating that it's level and not slightly bent. Did you chase the threads in the front of the blades with M8 x 1.25 mm tap so that the bolts fit easily? And the 2 small holes in the apron with M6 x 1.0 mm for the overrider support bolts? Anti-seize on each bolt's threads for rust avoidance?
To mount the bumper, I recommend that you loosen the bolts that hold the rear blades to the center blade and pry them apart so that the blade front ends point outward as much as the blades' bolt holes allow. Slide some winter socks over the front of the blades so that when you start to bring the bumper to the body, the blades won't contact the paint. Once you have all bumper points fastened to the body hand-tight, close the engine lid, step back about 5' and get onto your knees/crouch. Sight along the bumper blade upper edge and along the center towel bar so that the sight lines are parallel to the engine lid bottom edge, since you know that is level with the ground.
Then go around to either side of the car, crouch again, and view that the side blades are horizontal to the ground. Repeat on the other side. Make minor fitment adjustments by gently smacking the bumper with your hand. When everything is aligned, tighten all bolts so that the adjustments are firm. |
Rome, thank you for your well written suggestions. I was trying too carefully plan how I would install the bumper properly. I often see pictures of back bumpers that are not level or side blades that point up. I am very appreciative to have your suggestions. The sock is a great idea! I was going to put cloth over the sides of the car but this will be so much easier.
I started out leaving bolts loose for alignment like you suggest, however the lower carriage bolts that connect the blades are behind the plate that holds the bumper guard on. I had to tighten those. Will I still get enough play even with those tight?
The threads on the end of the wings are all good as are the threads on the apron.
Thank you for taking the time to write this up. It s very helpful. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:37 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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moogie32 wrote: |
Oh, wow, Marc - she's really taking shape! The bumpers look awesome! You'll be cruising with the rest of us before you know it!!! |
Thank you Diane,
You mean the car has to be driveable!! I thought all I had to do was make it pretty? _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Vladiiiii wrote: |
Those bumpers look great, and the rest of the car anyway
That air filter housing is also perfect
Time for spring/summer
Vlad |
Thanks Vladi,
The bumpers are not bad but they have lots of minor imperfections if someone looks too close. I'm ok with that. I'm not aiming for a perfect new look. It is 50 years old after all. The air cleaner however is much nicer than I ever thought I could find. It's amazing that it was so well preserved. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9653 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:31 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Quote: |
however the lower carriage bolts that connect the blades are behind the plate that holds the bumper guard on. I had to tighten those. Will I still get enough play even with those tight? |
Marc, my last bumper reassembly was in ~ 1994 on my '64 Coupe. The only previous time was in 1988 on my '64 Cabrio, so all that passed time clouded my memory of the (lack of) accessibility to the carriage bolts. Can you remove the bumper guards and the 2 plates to get to those bolts, then look that you have the proper distance at the front of the blade corners to space away from the body? Hand tight nuts + 1/4 turn of ratchet to hold the position. If the distance is too close to the quarter panel as you move the bumper frontwards to the final position, then carefully slide the bumper back, and smack the blades outward with your hand. Reposition until OK, then tighten the nuts fully. Install the guards and towel bars hand-tight for the next fitting session.
"Ideal" blade positioning would be that the gap to the body is uniform along the length of the blade, or tapers very slightly towards the front of the blade. Remember that you still must insert the rubber spacer at the front hole on the quarter panel when you fit the bolt in from the wheelwell. I think on my Ghia Coupe I did not have one of the factory spacers, so I stacked several 3/8" fender washers together to get the gap thickness I needed, then wrapped them with black duct tape. Hack, but effective and hard to differentiate from the real spacer unless you're looking specifically there from less than 2' away. The gap to the body will depend on the "bulge-out" of the quarter panel. Inaccurate repairs will look fine without the bumper, but the bumper blades are the true "gauge". After all of your bodywork and paint, I hope that won't be a disappointment so that you can achieve a proper fit. |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Rome wrote: |
Quote: |
however the lower carriage bolts that connect the blades are behind the plate that holds the bumper guard on. I had to tighten those. Will I still get enough play even with those tight? |
Marc, my last bumper reassembly was in ~ 1994 on my '64 Coupe. The only previous time was in 1988 on my '64 Cabrio, so all that passed time clouded my memory of the (lack of) accessibility to the carriage bolts. Can you remove the bumper guards and the 2 plates to get to those bolts, then look that you have the proper distance at the front of the blade corners to space away from the body? Hand tight nuts + 1/4 turn of ratchet to hold the position. If the distance is too close to the quarter panel as you move the bumper frontwards to the final position, then carefully slide the bumper back, and smack the blades outward with your hand. Reposition until OK, then tighten the nuts fully. Install the guards and towel bars hand-tight for the next fitting session.
"Ideal" blade positioning would be that the gap to the body is uniform along the length of the blade, or tapers very slightly towards the front of the blade. Remember that you still must insert the rubber spacer at the front hole on the quarter panel when you fit the bolt in from the wheelwell. I think on my Ghia Coupe I did not have one of the factory spacers, so I stacked several 3/8" fender washers together to get the gap thickness I needed, then wrapped them with black duct tape. Hack, but effective and hard to differentiate from the real spacer unless you're looking specifically there from less than 2' away. The gap to the body will depend on the "bulge-out" of the quarter panel. Inaccurate repairs will look fine without the bumper, but the bumper blades are the true "gauge". After all of your bodywork and paint, I hope that won't be a disappointment so that you can achieve a proper fit. |
I get it - "trial and error", LOL. I have everything I need as to hardware and parts so along with all your suggestions and information it hopefully will go well. I'll post my results once I get it finished.
Thanks again. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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moogie32 Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2005 Posts: 663 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Marcdeb wrote: |
moogie32 wrote: |
Oh, wow, Marc - she's really taking shape! The bumpers look awesome! You'll be cruising with the rest of us before you know it!!! |
Thank you Diane,
You mean the car has to be driveable!! I thought all I had to do was make it pretty? |
There's a lot to be said for pretty too! I was about to echo what Rome suggested- loose is key when trying to install bumpers and don't get frustrated. You are dealing with a straight car after all you have done to it but in my case Lilcar wasn't exactly perfect and it took a lot of trial and error to get them on. And I do suffer from a bit of droop on one of the ends....good luck! _________________ RIP HBB (1984-2009)
Du liefst so gut
Du warst so schön
Doch leider musst du von uns gehn |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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moogie32 wrote: |
I was about to echo what Rome suggested- loose is key when trying to install bumpers and don't get frustrated. You are dealing with a straight car after all you have done to it but in my case Lilcar wasn't exactly perfect and it took a lot of trial and error to get them on. And I do suffer from a bit of droop on one of the ends....good luck! |
Thank you for sharing your experience Diane. All this input will help me to not get frustrated when I get this done. I see no evidence that OGhia has ever had any damage or major impact, front or back so I'm hoping that will be in my favor. ?? _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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I wanted to post some findings on Bumper Carriage Bolts in case it might be helpful for others. I'm sure it's common that original carriage bolts are not always reusable. Here's some details to watch for if replacing these carriage bolts.
When my car arrived from the PO, the bumpers had just been assembled and put on the car, but everything was loose and I could literally move the bumpers up and down on the car. No big deal as I soon decided I would take it all apart for a new paint job.
While putting the bumpers back together this week, I realized that the new carriage bolts were not a proper match for the bumpers. The square shape below the dome was too long. The nut hits the end of the threads before the bumper sections are tight together. These carriage bolts are still useable if extra washers are used to fill between the nut and the bumper. I had a spare bumper so I compared the carriage bolts. I don't think these bolts are original either, but they seem to be a better choice as the square portion under the dome is much shorter and no extra washers are necessary. The dome on these is also larger which I suspect is more like originals.
Here's a picture of the hardware as it was installed when the car arrived.
Here's the two different bolts I have with the more appropriate carriage bolt on the left. The bolt on the right has a square shaft that is more than twice as long as the bolt on the left.
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3931 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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The one on the left is aftermarket. The one on the right is original.
I think the nearly twice as wide/flat looking aftermarket ones don't look nearly as good as the original bolts. The original type stand nice and proud, like an old time hot rivet.
_________________ aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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easy e wrote: |
The one on the left is aftermarket. The one on the right is original.
I think the nearly twice as wide/flat looking aftermarket ones don't look nearly as good as the original bolts. The original type stand nice and proud, like an old time hot rivet.
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In that case, then maybe they are both incorrect. The bolt on the right cannot be tightened. The square portion of the bolt is too long. The nut runs out of threads while the bumper pieces are still loose. ? _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:35 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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I started digging through all my spare hardware and I may have found an original, or correct, carriage bolt used on the bumpers. It is the bolt in the middle which has the smaller dome top as well as the shorter square shaft under the dome.
The bolts that came with my bumpers (On the left and right) are obviously new replacement and not a match to the original.
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Big Bill Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 1782 Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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I think you are correct, the middle bolt looks like some bumper bolts I have had to years. They came off of the bumpers of a 60 Rag top I had in the 80s, I often thought they were too short but with the single flat washer and nut they were perfect. |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Big Bill wrote: |
I think you are correct, the middle bolt looks like some bumper bolts I have had to years. They came off of the bumpers of a 60 Rag top I had in the 80s, I often thought they were too short but with the single flat washer and nut they were perfect. |
Thank you. I just found an ad offering original carriage bolts in great shape. They are on their way. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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While the bumpers are on hold waiting for the correct original carriage bolts, I moved on to the Windshield Wiper Assembly. It was naturally quite dirty but surprisingly, the top end of the motor itself was very oily and greasy.
Useally Simply Green would do a good job on something like this, but for the top of the wiper motor, I had to use engine degreaser carefully applied with a small brush and the grease came off easily.
Considering where this car came from and how long it was in pieces (10 years), I'm not so sure that all these pieces are correct. I happen to have another wiper assembly from a 71 Ghia and the the nuts that go on the spindle do not all match up. I have a thicker set that hold the spindle to the frame and then a thinner set that goes on the spindle once it's in place on the car. The spare assembly has all 4 of these nuts the same thinner thickness. The thicker nuts happen to be the only hardware that has rust on it although it was a thin rust that came off very easily and left no pitting at all. Once cleaned off these larger nuts look like Stainless to me???
I decided to leave everything as I received it.
OGhia came with black wiper arms and blades. The 1971 Brochure I have clearly shows silver wipers which I prefer anyway so silver it is going to be.
_________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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rbsurfguy Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008 Posts: 1757 Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:31 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Looks great Marc, did the same to mine, just cleaned up parts well and the connectors, all work. At least it rotates when I test it!
Jeff _________________ 1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
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Trylon Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2019 Posts: 4853 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Was not planning on driving in the rain but was happy to have working wipers when I came home in some light drizzle from Lime Rock.
Seems that my plans and reality often clash.
Fun to see your car coming together! _________________ 1973 Porsche 914 2.0
1959 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
1979 Volkswagen Rabbit
1973 Volkswagen Bus
1970 MGB-GT
1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire
More tomfoolery on
The Karmann Ghia Fever YouTube Channel! |
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Marcdeb Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019 Posts: 3033 Location: Vermont
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Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: O Ghia's Restoration Journey |
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Trylon wrote: |
Was not planning on driving in the rain but was happy to have working wipers when I came home in some light drizzle from Lime Rock.
Seems that my plans and reality often clash.
Fun to see your car coming together! |
Same here, I hope I never get caught in the rain, but need to be prepared for it just the same. _________________ Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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