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djkeev
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9653
Location: Pearl River, NY
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 Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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Dave, did you attend the Aircooled Gathering in Flanders, NJ in Sept. 2014? There was a nicely done pink mid-60's Ghia cabrio displayed with a convertible top which did not have any padding nor headliner. The owner painted the metal frame tubes gloss black, and "varnished" the wood bow above the rear window. It looked quite good.
I took a photo of some of the inner roof which I can post here if you want. Others might also be curious how that looks like if the work is well done. I realize your '69 1/2 has the glass rear window which the event Ghia did not have, but the idea of the exposed inner structure still pertains. |
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djkeev
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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| Rome wrote: |
Dave, did you attend the Aircooled Gathering in Flanders, NJ in Sept. 2014? There was a nicely done pink mid-60's Ghia cabrio displayed with a convertible top which did not have any padding nor headliner. The owner painted the metal frame tubes gloss black, and "varnished" the wood bow above the rear window. It looked quite good.
I took a photo of some of the inner roof which I can post here if you want. Others might also be curious how that looks like if the work is well done. I realize your '69 1/2 has the glass rear window which the event Ghia did not have, but the idea of the exposed inner structure still pertains. |
I most likely did, I live but a few miles from Flanders, except for this year (2019) I've pretty much been there.
I've zero recollection of that Ghia, if you can post photos that would be AMAZING!!!!
Dave
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Rome
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Posts: 9653
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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Here you go. It's the pink Ghia on the left.
Overall shot of the Ghias at that event. When the row on the right filled up, a few more Ghias were positioned at the left adjacent to the Type 2s.
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djkeev
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djkeev
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Evil_Fiz
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Joined: May 06, 2011
Posts: 1049
Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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I had a 68 convertible way back when and I crudely installed a standard vinyl top "to keep the rain out" as you put it. Although not perfect the top fit surprisingly well and I don't recall any flapping. One advantage of the single layer top is that the frame will sit much flatter when folded, almost to the point of being recessed. Like you, I plan to go with a single layer and plastic window on my 70 so this thread is getting bookmarked.
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Emil
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“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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67 Florida Deluxe
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Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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If memory serves, the VW headliner has loops that sleeve through the top bows to keep the headliner in place. The padding goes between the top bows and top, and that sandwiching keeps the top from buffeting. Since the Mercedes soft top has no headliner, the canvas top is made with fabric "tubes" that the top bows sleeve through to keep the top from buffeting. On the KG pictured with no headliner and no connection for the top to the bows, it would likely create the opportunity to buffet, especially if the top isn't taught when up. Certainly, the top will bubble outward from pressure differences when driving at highway speeds, but then again I read that the point of a convertible was to drive it with the top down! I, too, love to drive in frigid weather with the top down, windows up and heat blasting 
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-Kent (BaT "daleallen")
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A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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KGCoupe
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Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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Back in November of 2018, Jeferson Milão posted this photo in the Vintage Ghia photos thread, ...
| Jeferson Milão wrote: |
Brazil
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I'm guessing from the way that the top frame bows show beneath the top that there's probably no padding.
The way that the folded down top of the Ghia on the left also sits nearly flush with the body would also seem to indicate there's no padding.
Personally, I actually prefer the looks of that Brazilian top - particularly the increased size of the rear window. |
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67 Florida Deluxe
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Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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^^^That looks really cool. Given the taughtness of the top, I bet it doesn't buffet much, if at all, against the frame. Of course, the question remains, where to find that kind of top or was it a custom job.
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-Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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djkeev
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67 Florida Deluxe
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Evil_Fiz
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Location: Jacksonville, FL
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
This is one of John's photos of a Brazilian Ghia Convertible.
Look how far the top folds down into the body.
Dave |
^^^ I can confirm that. "Over the shoulder" Visibility is better as well.
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Emil
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“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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djkeev
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KGCoupe
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Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
...
Here is another convertible with that crazy big back window. I can't read the plate to see what Country it is........
Dave |
Aren't those (Type III?) taillights unique to the Brazilian Karmann Ghia? |
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John Moxon 
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djkeev
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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Thanks John for the offer.
I suspect that others beside myself are, or would be, interested in a "simple" Ghia top.
Not only less bulk, but far far less expense also.
I am intrigued by them and the curious part of me wants to know more about how they are constructed.
Does the rear window unzip?
Are there "tubes" sewn into the top that fasten the roof to the frame rails?
Is it a standard German Ghia top frame with a different cover?
Why the snaps behind the door?
How does the rear shed water?
Did they change in 1969 1/2 like the German ones?
If so, do the newer ones use the J channel and a cable below the rear window?
Is the rear window panel replaceable like older American cars?
Can you just drop the rear window panel with the top still up for increased ventilation?
Are they padded at all?
If you know someone who can provide photos and answers that can then be posted here for all to see ..... that would be great!
If the tops are available, I would guess that they aren't cheap if there are but 744 units ever made (I read that number somewhere, it may not be correct)
I am thinking of calling Carol at SewFine and direct her to this thread.
See if she thinks she can replicate this basic top for the German frame?
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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djkeev
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Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Unpadded Convertible top? |
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| 67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
| If memory serves, the VW headliner has loops that sleeve through the top bows to keep the headliner in place. The padding goes between the top bows and top, and that sandwiching keeps the top from buffeting. Since the Mercedes soft top has no headliner, the canvas top is made with fabric "tubes" that the top bows sleeve through to keep the top from buffeting. On the KG pictured with no headliner and no connection for the top to the bows, it would likely create the opportunity to buffet, especially if the top isn't taught when up. Certainly, the top will bubble outward from pressure differences when driving at highway speeds, but then again I read that the point of a convertible was to drive it with the top down! I, too, love to drive in frigid weather with the top down, windows up and heat blasting |
You are correct, the Karmann top has the headliner fastened to the bows.
The padding lies in the voids and that is covered with the top.
The top connects at the header bow, the rear and has cables along the sides to provide tension.
The header bows are kept in order by straps and a length of Elastic.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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djkeev
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djkeev
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