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smitty1976bus Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 369 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Hi all, took a nice long trip last weekend, was cruising on the freeway at 65(sh) mph, and after a while i noticed it was really really loud. Thinking of replacing my muffler. Have a 78 Bus, EFI, with a '74 style heater box/exhaust setup, used the 74' style because it's the what I had at the moment, and the muffler portion had been left outside and is a little rusty. Sounds like a rattle on the inside.. Whats the best (quietest) muffler I could buy. Should I stay stock (most expensive):
Or buy some EMPI unit:
I assume that these buses shouldn't be deafening on the highway, ha. But i could be wrong. |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5778 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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I really really like my Vintage Speed muffler.
Though I will admit it is not as quiet as I had hoped...
_________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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smitty1976bus wrote: |
Should I stay stock (most expensive):
Or buy some EMPI unit:
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Having used both of these, stock is quieter and lasts *way* longer than the EMPI unit. I got about a year out of each of the first two EMPI mufflers before they died from rust and terrible mounting design, year and a half from the generic FLAPS muffler I welded to the flange of the second EMPI muffler. Then the header itself rusted through one of the pipes just before the collector. This is on a daily-driver Bus in Portland, Oregon .. not exactly a rust-belt city where they salt the roads six months of the year.
I then picked up a used stock muffler and ran that for 2.5 years until the aircooled died from a lifter failure. Muffler looked just as good coming off as it did on installation, and I gave it to a buddy who needed a muffler for his '77 with '74 heater boxes .. because the EMPI stuff kept rusting out on him. |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7376
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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My recommendation would be to go get a DB meter (inexpensive on Ebay). Then you can get a reading for your baseline with windows up/down, what gear, and rpm range. Having your exhaust pipe exit back past the rear bumper by a few inches usually makes a big difference. |
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74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7376
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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My recommendation would be to go get a DB meter (inexpensive on Ebay). Then you can get a reading for your baseline with windows up/down, what gear, and rpm range. Having your exhaust pipe exit back past the rear bumper by a few inches usually makes a big difference. |
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smitty1976bus Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 369 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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jtauxe wrote: |
I really really like my Vintage Speed muffler.
Though I will admit it is not as quiet as I had hoped...
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that is one beautiful muffler! Pricey though. I'll put that on my 'one day' list.
74 Thing wrote: |
My recommendation would be to go get a DB meter (inexpensive on Ebay). Then you can get a reading for your baseline with windows up/down, what gear, and rpm range. Having your exhaust pipe exit back past the rear bumper by a few inches usually makes a big difference. |
Thats a good idea! And there's an App for that on my phone, haha. I know what I'll be doing tonight.
tristessa wrote: |
Having used both of these, stock is quieter and lasts *way* longer than the EMPI unit. I got about a year out of each of the first two EMPI mufflers before they died from rust and terrible mounting design, year and a half from the generic FLAPS muffler I welded to the flange of the second EMPI muffler. Then the header itself rusted through one of the pipes just before the collector. This is on a daily-driver Bus in Portland, Oregon .. not exactly a rust-belt city where they salt the roads six months of the year.
I then picked up a used stock muffler and ran that for 2.5 years until the aircooled died from a lifter failure. Muffler looked just as good coming off as it did on installation, and I gave it to a buddy who needed a muffler for his '77 with '74 heater boxes .. because the EMPI stuff kept rusting out on him. |
Good point. We are entering salting season where I am now, so salt will be on everything soon. Buuuut, on the other hand, Jbugs is having an EMPI sale, and the muffler is only $135... And BusDepot has stock units for $250... oh man, I'm leaning towards doing the wrong thing and buying the cheaper EMPI, hmmm... Time to weigh the pros and cons |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16927 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Any iPhone or similar can get a free db meter app that works well. I have one on my phone.
In my opinion, the best quality for sound, longevity, and fit, would be the stock muffler.
I drove a 1971 bus recently that had a 6 month old VS muffler. It had leaks from poor fitment as well as being very loud. Chinese crap
If you want to be cheap and still have a quiet muffler I'd suggest taking your bus down to your friendly local muffler shop and have them weld on a generic muffler that's close to stock size. I've seen that on type 4 buses before. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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69BahamaYellow Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011 Posts: 535 Location: Talbott, TN
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Hey Smitty, I have a 1978 also, but have the OEM heat exchangers instead of your 1974 style. I ran into this problem as well. The aftermarket mufflers are just too loud and the OEM quiet ones are just way too much money for something that's just going to rust out anyway. If you could get OEM in stainless, then pay whatever they charge and go that route. You will not regret it.
What I did was weld a resonator (cut off a junkyard Volvo) to the end of my aftermarket PaceSetter muffler, and this reduces noise significantly for very little $. Still not as quiet as OEM, but almost.
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6937 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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aeromech wrote: |
I drove a 1971 bus recently that had a 6 month old VS muffler. It had leaks from poor fitment as well as being very loud. Chinese crap . |
That is an installation issue, not a quality issue. The DB level of the VS is not a low as stock but waaaay quieter then any of those EMPI mufflers the OP posted. Also, it isn’t made in China and the quality is very good. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5986 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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A stock muffler will be the quietest option. The hard part is finding one. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Daverham Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1397 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Stock muffler is the quietest I've ever tried and that seems to be the prevailing wisdom when you ask around. |
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KentABQ Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 2406 Location: Albuquerque NM
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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How's this for a stupid question...
Did you check for exhaust leaks?
My stock exhaust (a very nice hand-me-down from Andrewtf) quieted down a lot after retightening the connections. _________________ -Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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tristessa Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004 Posts: 3992 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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smitty1976bus wrote: |
oh man, I'm leaning towards doing the wrong thing and buying the cheaper EMPI, hmmm... Time to weigh the pros and cons |
Pro on the EMPI is that it's initially cheaper, con is that you'll most likely be replacing the muffler every year or two if you drive it very much.
Pro on the stock style is that it's quieter than the EMPI, fits better than the EMPI, and will last much longer than the EMPI, con is that it costs more money up front. |
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smitty1976bus Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 369 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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aeromech wrote: |
If you want to be cheap and still have a quiet muffler I'd suggest taking your bus down to your friendly local muffler shop and have them weld on a generic muffler that's close to stock size. I've seen that on type 4 buses before. |
69BahamaYellow wrote: |
Hey Smitty, I have a 1978 also, but have the OEM heat exchangers instead of your 1974 style. I ran into this problem as well. The aftermarket mufflers are just too loud and the OEM quiet ones are just way too much money for something that's just going to rust out anyway. If you could get OEM in stainless, then pay whatever they charge and go that route. You will not regret it.
What I did was weld a resonator (cut off a junkyard Volvo) to the end of my aftermarket PaceSetter muffler, and this reduces noise significantly for very little $. Still not as quiet as OEM, but almost. |
These are good ideas, I usually just end making something that works in times like this. I can grab a spare muffler or resonator pretty easily, could be worth it to have someone weld up something that fits. Def a plus if it's stainless. Thats good setup you have 69BahamaYellow
KentPS wrote: |
How's this for a stupid question...
Did you check for exhaust leaks?
My stock exhaust (a very nice hand-me-down from Andrewtf) quieted down a lot after retightening the connections. |
Where the heat exchanges bolt up to the muffler? Yes. I tightened it up snugly, and even loaded it up with muffler cement, then tightened it, in hopes to seal up any potential leak spots. I even wrap it up with muffler tape, to seal it even more. I'm thinking I should take it off one more time, and take a file to both ends, and make sure it's flat, and not warped.
Have I retightened or checked the torque on the F pipes to exhaust port on heads? No. Guess I should, just to be sure.
tristessa wrote: |
smitty1976bus wrote: |
oh man, I'm leaning towards doing the wrong thing and buying the cheaper EMPI, hmmm... Time to weigh the pros and cons |
Pro on the EMPI is that it's initially cheaper, con is that you'll most likely be replacing the muffler every year or two if you drive it very much.
Pro on the stock style is that it's quieter than the EMPI, fits better than the EMPI, and will last much longer than the EMPI, con is that it costs more money up front. |
Agreed, the consensus is to go stock. I see that EMPI says you need to strip the black paint off of their mufflers, and re-paint with other paint, or coat them. Wonder if that helps with rust prevention.
I did some db readings tonight (windows up), not sure if its good or not:
At idle, behind bus: 74 db
At idle, inside bus: 66 db
Driving normally: 77-80 db
3000 (sh) RMP: 84-86 db
Google tells me normal db inside a car, at 60 mph, is 70db.... And db over 85 is harmfull to the ears for extended periods of time... Sounds like i do have a loud exhaust pun intended |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51060 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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It's easy to determine if it is leaking, block the end of the tailpipe with a towel as it idles, it should get silent, if you still hear putt putt putt or something else it's leaking. If it is jack up the bus (chock the wheels, jack stands, etc.) and lay under the engine while a helper blocks the pipe so you can pinpoint where the sound(s) are coming from, caution, hot parts.
Those stock muffs are usually nice and quiet, unless the guts all fell out the end while you were shaking it the Db level in the cab shouldn't be as high as you are finding.
Are you sure there isn't an EGR port or air injection port that's been left open?
I also don't see a hanger strap on the left rear from the shroud to the muffler/heat exchanger joint, no strap pulls out head studs and makes leaks. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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Busdepot Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004 Posts: 1306
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Quote: |
Having used both of these, stock is quieter and lasts *way* longer than the EMPI unit. |
Absolutely correct on both counts.
This one: https://www.busdepot.com/071251053ek _________________ - Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2182 Location: seattle
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Stock is best, thicker steel & way more back pressure than EMPI,
which you want on a 2.0L with fuel injection.
Even though you're running '74 style heater boxes, that factory muffler
is way better than any EMPI for your application. I've run both, money
spent on EMPI is a band aid, not long term solution. |
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smitty1976bus Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 369 Location: Cape Cod
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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busdaddy wrote: |
It's easy to determine if it is leaking, block the end of the tailpipe with a towel as it idles, it should get silent, if you still hear putt putt putt or something else it's leaking. If it is jack up the bus (chock the wheels, jack stands, etc.) and lay under the engine while a helper blocks the pipe so you can pinpoint where the sound(s) are coming from, caution, hot parts.
Those stock muffs are usually nice and quiet, unless the guts all fell out the end while you were shaking it the Db level in the cab shouldn't be as high as you are finding.
Are you sure there isn't an EGR port or air injection port that's been left open? |
I like that idea with the towel, that way I can at least test my muffler. Might be able to salvage it.. maybe.
busdaddy wrote: |
I also don't see a hanger strap on the left rear from the shroud to the muffler/heat exchanger joint, no strap pulls out head studs and makes leaks. |
Ummm.. whats this now? There should be hanger on the muffler?? I'm doing a quick web search and can find the strap, but where does it go? Also, the image I posted before, isn't of my exhaust, this is: (it's in rough shape)
The seams are beginning to separate a little bit, so curious to do that towel test now.. |
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rastomas Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2007 Posts: 258 Location: rosendale, ny
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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Stock. Have it blasted and painted properly at a proper shop that can use superpaint and bake it. Worth the dough. Cost me an extra 100, but has to be worth it. You can do it yourself if you're able of course. _________________ "It's not 'You are what you eat', it's 'You are what you don't SHIT". Wavy Gravy.
'74 Westy |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13387 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Best muffler to keep it quiet |
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richparker wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
I drove a 1971 bus recently that had a 6 month old VS muffler. It had leaks from poor fitment as well as being very loud. Chinese crap . |
That is an installation issue, not a quality issue. The DB level of the VS is not a low as stock but waaaay quieter then any of those EMPI mufflers the OP posted. Also, it isn’t made in China and the quality is very good. |
I know 3-4 people who tried a Vintage Speed muffler. All yanked them back off because they are loud. There's also lots of pictures of the stainless cracking on the mufflers.
My strong vote is stock muffler as well. Whether a type 1 engine or type 4. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
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