Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Aloha folks!

I've rebuilt my first automatic transmission, and it's been an interesting first experience.
I cannot thank enough for the profusion of information found on various threads on the forum, the help from members answering my technical questions and a few special mentions to Kourt https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=616506
Djkeev https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 for their helpful threads.
And Hatchb4ack https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3872166#3872166 for their helpful threads and their well detailed pictures.

The disassembly was easy and didn't require any book but some patience and care in the process.
The reassembly definitely had major PITA moments for sure. Sometimes, take a deep breath, relax: it can be easier installing a part before the frictions, just think out of the box to find smart solutions Wink
The worst part for me was to mate the differential and transmission together fully.

In the process, I've also added a transmission oil cooler, copied off the Go Westy kit for 140 bucks. Mahalo Sodo for helping me with Hawai'i shipping Cool Cool


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


EDIT: the hot out should be at the bottom port, not at the top port. The 3 following pictures are WRONG!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I put friction tape under the hose clamps
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is running with type F transmission fluid (Ford FA) following Terry Kay recommendation (similar to B&M trick shift from what he says)
Now I'm having problems with this rebuild.

It got bodged on a previous rebuild, extra disc, transfer plate worn out and "fixed", old parts reused,missing hardware on the valve body etc...

The Westy won't move in D or any other gear when the brake band screw is adjusted to the specs (87 then 43 in/Lbs). Also the adjusting screw is not sticking out of the locking nut but rather recessed a 1/3rd of the way when torqued to specs.

So I unscrewed it, and the van can now move and drive, but won't move in D, although I can tell it wants to (slightly rocking when rev'ing)
I can drive , but I gotta start in 1, it cannot start in 2 either.
Once I have a little bit of speed, I can shift manually in D and all is good, so I'm thinking it's drive 1 and 3 and R, but 2nd doesn't work? But what about in D?? It should be "starting" automatically from a stop in 1st anyway, right?
Kick down spins in the air at low speed unless I release the gas pedal depending how tight the 2nd gear brake band adjustement screw is. I'm not impressed by the kickdown feature. I didn't mess with the accelerator cable, I disconnected the selector off the transmission to not mess up anything.

It shifts beautifully once driving, a little more rough than I would like when engaging the Reverse ( rebuilt axles, 17.000 original miles on VW cv joints, regreased and swapped around for starting like new, so definitely no worn out CV clonking)

If I roll down a hill from a stop on the D position, once I have speed I can get going in D thanks to the momentum.

I don't even know what the 2nd gear brake band does, it obvioulsy squeezes a drum, but it seems like the drum it applies on cannot spin anyway, it's fixed.


Here are the pictures of this adventure Smile


What you need:
Overhaul kit 65006D from Cobra transmission (cheapest I found, and it contains the 3mm steel ball for the valve body in case you loose it) (65006D is equal to 65001D (useful parts in there are oil pan gasket, torque converter seal and governor o'ring and seal) and 65002C.
The friction discs are made by Exedy FYI https://www.exedyusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...et_web.pdf
The steels are made by Raybestos
I got my piston seals online after digging for some info:
010323479A 1st/Reverse brake piston is NLA but 010323477 with the check ball valve can be mounted too, which is easily available
The 3 piston kit is K79971A and is made in Taiwan by Linesoon, and contains 79970A which is 010323477 , 79973 = 010323217A and 79974 = 010323121B
Parts lists of what you need plus more detailed in the picture:
Not pictured are the selector shaft o'rings, they ended up in the trash before I took the picture.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Bushing kit from GoWesty with the impossibe to find turbine shaft/converter reactor bushing. The kit is a standard bushing kit G-9709 + the GW bushing.
(1) GW-designed turbine shaft/converter reactor bushing (003519074 AM)
(1) Direct drive bushing (010323115)
(1) Small bushing for pump (003321254)
(1) Large bushing for gear in pump (003323611)
(1) Torque converter bushing (00323611)
(2) Sun gear bushings (010323217A)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Helpful catalog for parts http://transmissionkits.com/catalogs-wallcharts/
Helpful exploded view to understand how everything goes. Do not trust the picture for amount of discs and steels http://at-manuals.com/manuals/010-vwaudi-087-089-090-2/
Another similar here http://www.jpat.co.uk/87%20Volkswagen%201%20010%20087etc.pdf
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Troubleshooting http://www3.sympatico.ca/tchaad/Lost%20Knowledge/at_010.pdf




This was a free transmission I started with, I spotted it from a roof while installing solar, in the neighbor's yard Laughing

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Draining the beast.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I didn't like the pieces of white plastic I found inside, so I moved on to another transmission from a parts van I bought a few months ago.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


After I separated the 090 transmission unit from the differential unit, I took the pinion bearing flange out to replace the back to back lip seals.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I made a plastic sleeve to help reinstalling the pinion bearing flange. This is absolutely necessary since the first seal to engage is "backwards", fighting the lip. I tried without at first, and I took it apart a week later to double check my half ass work just in case, the rubber lip was bent...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Draining the torque converter
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Replacing the bushing
extracting
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

inserting with a socket
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Draining the differential
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Oil pan magnet
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Cork gasket with Permatex Aviation coating on both sides

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I've added locking washers to the missing washers It's much better now Smile
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


For info, different dispticks on 1.9 and 2.1 . 1.9 is bent to clear the coolant crossover pipe at the top of the engine.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also replaced the final drive (axle flanges) seals but not the o'rings, those things rarely leak.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Governor seal and o'ring for the cover
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New Torque Converter seal. Prefer the metal clad seal over the non metal clad model.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





Time to get to the serious stuff now.
Removing the valve body

I can tell this transmission got worked onto before, marks on phillips heads, missing bolt etc...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm going on unknown territory here, I haven't opened the Bentley book at this point, so I'm just marking EVERYTHING! Zip tie on the open end of the spring, just in case. Accumulator piston.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

New seals installed
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Disassembling the selector and kickdown stuff
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Taking apart the valves for cleaning
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That poor plate has seen better days... I grinded it to "fix" it I'm wondering if my problem can also come from here. I don't know what that ball is doing. It looks like a very archaic way to plug the hole, lots of play around. I pounded it back flat with a brass drift since it was a little warped in this location too. I can tell somebody before me did it too, with less care...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Removing the 2nd gear brake band piston and cover
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Yucky
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The adjusting set screw and nut for the 2nd gear brake band
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





Remove the gasket plate (1 flat head screw) then you'll get to this:
Removing this clip wasn't necessary, leave it alone and grab the whole disc out.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Remove like this, easier
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Brass thrust washers on both sides of the reverse planetary gear set
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Another clip to pop with a flat blade screwdriver.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Reverse planetary gear set and one-way clutch
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Drive shell and double sun gear.Note the 2nd brass thrust washer with tabs up
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't know how it happened, but it probably got worn out then the previous rebuilder grinded the lip off
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Pressing out bushings in the double sun gear with a socket. Coincidentally, the mark on the socket is also the same depth for recessing the bushing Smile
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Remove that key
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Worn!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Forward clutch
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Direct/reverse clutch

Good thing I took a picture of these discs on the D/R clutch, I would have never figured out there was an extra one in there unless MarkWard on the forum pointed it out... Shitty previous rebuilder job Evil or Very Mad
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=674438&highlight=
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Replacing the bushing in the D/R clutch
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Depth
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Changing the piston on the D/R clutch. You gotta press to reach/free the clip. I ended up bending the washer that compresses the springs. Make sure it goes down straight under the press.... It took me an hour of work to shape it back straight with the press Embarassed

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

New VW piston (note the part number grounded off. Score! Cool )
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

New spring plate
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

You break it, you fix it!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.





2nd gear brake band
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1st/reverse apply shell removal, along with spring plate, oil pump and brake piston (all sandwiched)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Someone went in there before...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Empty!!!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Oil pump rings
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Replacing the bushings in the oil pump
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Small bushing extraction and installation
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Driving the big old bushing out with the new one in, then drilled it perpendicularly to insert a rod then drive it all out.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Comparing Reverse brake pistons, old with new ones of different brands
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

New ones have the ball check valve, the other ones are NLA.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Upon reassembly, don't make the same mistake as I did, do not mount the piston thinking you will fine adjust it later, it won't budge! Instead, mount it with the 1st/reverse apply shell to make sure the ball check valve lines up. I didn't want to ruin the piston so I opened up the hole larger in the shell Rolling Eyes
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Different frictions in the kit, the thin ones go in the forward clutch, the thick ones on the D/R clutch.
Don't fnck up the count!!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I let them soak for 24 hours in transmission fluid
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I forgot where this fat wavy washer goes, but it was interesting to notice.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New rings on the shaft
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Alright, 6 hours to make that post, see ya!

_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget


Last edited by ALIKA T3 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:43 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fleet_maintenance
Samba Member


Joined: November 01, 2013
Posts: 309
Location: Upstate NY
fleet_maintenance is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 090 010 transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems.... Reply with quote

Thanks for taking the time to document. Your post makes me want to buy an auto just to tear into it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 090 010 transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems.... Reply with quote

fleet_maintenance wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to document. Your post makes me want to buy an auto just to tear into it


Thank you !

I have to say, I wanted an automatic just to rebuild it too, that was the last thing for me to learn on a Vanagon Laughing

It really is an amazing thing, my GF was very interested in the valve body, it blew her mind, mine too. Mechanical computer.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Bump.

Nobody has any idea about my 2nd gear brake band and/or D problem?

Aloha!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kourt
Samba Member


Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1202
Location: Austin, TX
kourt is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Are you sure the piston rod is seated in the proper pocket on the end of the band? It's easy to get it wrong.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Nice post, BTW.

kourt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pablum
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2015
Posts: 562

pablum is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

All's I can say is if that 2nd gear break band adjustment pin is too far in there's a fitment problem inside. Either it's not resting properly on the band, the band is cocked, or the piston is... don't know how it could be the piston.

[oh crap I said fitment!]
_________________
The wise man learns from history, the fool from experience.
-
I see [a cat] in the street and i aim for the pest with my car. -- Evil or Very Mad bluebus86
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Thank you Kourt!

I did tightened by hand the brake band and checked it out before installing the valve body, but I also did back up that screw all the way to re-do it with a torque wrench the first time, I can see it may have slipped out of its location Evil or Very Mad

What is the fonction of that band anyway? It's squeezes a non spinning drum, I don't quite understand....

I'll have to remove the valve body then to double check and torque it to specs before installing the valve body back on.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

pablum wrote:
All's I can say is if that 2nd gear break band adjustment pin is too far in there's a fitment problem inside. Either it's not resting properly on the band, the band is cocked, or the piston is... don't know how it could be the piston.

[oh crap I said fitment!]


Sigh, def will have to take the valve body out to check it out Sad

Do you know its function?

Thanks Pablum Smile
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kourt
Samba Member


Joined: August 13, 2013
Posts: 1202
Location: Austin, TX
kourt is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-brake-band.html

kourt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

kourt wrote:
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-brake-band.html

kourt


I get the stopping function, but isn't the apply shell a fixed part in our transmission? The brake band goes around it.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 11365
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

2nd gear brake ban holds this drum. It is not splined, but floats on the pump shaft from memory.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The valve body plate looks pretty beat and that is where the "magic" happens. Too bad new plates are not available. That is where the bulk of the valve body wear seems to occur.

Now, some valve bodies had 4 balls others had 5 balls. You will need to determine if that was another mistake by the previous overhauler. Also, the Bentley manual has a pressure chart to help troubleshoot transmission problems.

One last thing I did not see in your excellent write up. You need to pressure test with air the drum packs etc as you rebuild the transmission. The manual shows you were to test with compressed air. It has been many years since I overhauled an automatic. It kicked my ass and it was the last one. It came to me in a box in pieces. I thought I did everything right, but it would not upshift out of second when it was cold. I recall putting in a used valve body because even back then, the hard parts were not available. Best of luck figuring it out. I often learn more when things don't go right the first time. mark
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pablum
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2015
Posts: 562

pablum is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:

What is the fonction of that band anyway? It's squeezes a non spinning drum, I don't quite understand....


Roughly (and pardon my terminology) from SSP8, grabbing the clutch drum of the D+R clutch (and the bell) also grabs the sun gear (of the forward planetary set) which becomes a lever for the next part:

Meanwhile the turbine shaft (attached to that part in the TC I guess?) drives the engaged forward clutch to the ringwheel of the forward planetary set (and thus the 3 planet gears) to the drive shaft (meaning to the wheels.)
_________________
The wise man learns from history, the fool from experience.
-
I see [a cat] in the street and i aim for the pest with my car. -- Evil or Very Mad bluebus86
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pablum
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2015
Posts: 562

pablum is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
kourt wrote:
http://www.freeasestudyguides.com/transmission-brake-band.html

kourt


I get the stopping function, but isn't the apply shell a fixed part in our transmission? The brake band goes around it.


No the brake band is inside the apply shell and encompasses the drum. Only the ends of the band protrude out the bell to be engaged by the piston/pin.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


EDIT: Mark Ward's pic shows the band in the shell...
_________________
The wise man learns from history, the fool from experience.
-
I see [a cat] in the street and i aim for the pest with my car. -- Evil or Very Mad bluebus86
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Hey guys !

Thank you all for your help Smile

I could have sworn I re installed the brake band outside the apply shell, but maybe it's not possible....now it's function makes sense .

Everything works well besides that, so I'll have to remove the VB definitely.

It is the correct transfer plate, I checked the identification marks when I rebuilt it.

I couldn't check out the second gear brake band with compressed air bc the hole wasn't round and I didn't have time to mess with it. If all is cleaned, new and lubed, I didn't see why I would need to bother with air tests, so I didn't do it.
It would be nice to have plates laser cut again, but the reverse design seems intense... maybe w a scanner it could work? Not my field but if there's demand, I could have it done in France Smile

Aloha all!
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Energy Concepts
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 271

Energy Concepts is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:
Hey guys !
Thank you all for your help Smile
I could have sworn I re installed the brake band outside the apply shell, but maybe it's not possible....now it's function makes sense .
Everything works well besides that, so I'll have to remove the VB definitely.
It is the correct transfer plate, I checked the identification marks when I rebuilt it.
I couldn't check out the second gear brake band with compressed air bc the hole wasn't round and I didn't have time to mess with it. If all is cleaned, new and lubed, I didn't see why I would need to bother with air tests, so I didn't do it.
It would be nice to have plates laser cut again, but the reverse design seems intense... maybe w a scanner it could work? Not my field but if there's demand, I could have it done in France Smile
Aloha all!

I believe Jim Ellis Atlanta
[email protected]
has the Valve Body's ?
JC...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 11365
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

I would be surprised if you got the brake band in on the outside of the stamped sheet metal shell. I don't think there is the room. The adjustment bolt is really more of a "stop" than an active part. You set it and forget it. All the action is on the opposite side of the band. Will be interesting to hear what you find. Good luck. mark
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Gruppe B
Samba Member


Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 1312

Gruppe B is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Energy Concepts wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:
Hey guys !
Thank you all for your help Smile
I could have sworn I re installed the brake band outside the apply shell, but maybe it's not possible....now it's function makes sense .
Everything works well besides that, so I'll have to remove the VB definitely.
It is the correct transfer plate, I checked the identification marks when I rebuilt it.
I couldn't check out the second gear brake band with compressed air bc the hole wasn't round and I didn't have time to mess with it. If all is cleaned, new and lubed, I didn't see why I would need to bother with air tests, so I didn't do it.
It would be nice to have plates laser cut again, but the reverse design seems intense... maybe w a scanner it could work? Not my field but if there's demand, I could have it done in France Smile
Aloha all!

I believe Jim Ellis Atlanta
[email protected]
has the Valve Body's ?
JC...


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=667234&highlight=

I ordered mine from jimellis and am waiting for it to arrive from Germany..
Get it before its sold out and gone. $250!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 11365
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

One thought about the little balls. Look at pages 38.27 and 38.28 in the manual. There was a change in production. I thought it was the number of balls, but it is also the size of the balls. You need to look at the notches in the separation plate to know which version you have. The I assume early version had 5 balls equal size. The later had 6 balls. 5 were six mm and the sixth was 3mm. Hope that helps some too.

Looking at your pictures above, your notches don't seem to match the manual, but it is a little hard to tell. I wonder if the valve body is from something else?
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI conversion.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro conversion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALIKA T3
Samba Member


Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 3729
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
ALIKA T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

Thank you Gruppe B!

Yeah, I might bite the bullet and do it, although I don't really want to, it sucks to buy a whole thing just for the plate. I have 2 other spare transmissions, although one has a deeper governor cover, one is a NG for sure like the one I rebuilt. I don't know what valve body they have.

MarkWard wrote:
One thought about the little balls. Look at pages 38.27 and 38.28 in the manual. There was a change in production. I thought it was the number of balls, but it is also the size of the balls. You need to look at the notches in the separation plate to know which version you have. The I assume early version had 5 balls equal size. The later had 6 balls. 5 were six mm and the sixth was 3mm. Hope that helps some too.

Thank you Mark, I did, I have the FFB valve body (bolted-on id tag if that can be trusted), and the notches matched the Bentley, one of the notch is actually not really an identifying notch, so I doesn't match exactly the manual picture.It is the version with the small 3mm ball, and 5 other bigger balls.It is shifting fine and crisp once driving, the Reverse is a little aggressive though, it does a "thump!" noise when engaged. I will try to tackle the job to check out the brake band next week, this week end is gonna be busy already, and I will report back so we know what we are talking about. The band out of place makes the most sense for now, a new valve body would be extra icing on top of the cake

Looking at your pictures above, your notches don't seem to match the manual, but it is a little hard to tell. I wonder if the valve body is from something else?



Have a great day amigos ! Wink
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wesitarz
Samba Member


Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 852
Location: Victoria,B.C.Canada
wesitarz is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic transmission rebuild+ custom oil cooler and problems Reply with quote

I've been thinking of adding a trans temp sender inline off the trans to the cooler line. I had noted that the outlet is the bottom fitting and the inlet/return is the top fitting.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

So the bottom would be Hot and the top would be cool,which is opposite to your setup.No?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB