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oldschool5er
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 804
Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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[quote="Double-Double"][quote="oldschool5er"][quote="Double-Double"][quote="oldschool5er"]
| Double-Double wrote: |
I did do some calling around after taking a break painting and I am planning on sending my trans off to Rancho to get the super street package with 4.37 ring and pinion and super-diff. He is asking $1095 for it so that’s not too bad considering it should be the last trans I have to buy for this rig since I am not hard on my stuff and take good care of my rigs. Only issue is shipping 1000 miles each way, but I guess it’s done all the time.
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You can't go wrong with Rancho, they have been around a long time. I have been running 8 bolt 4.37 R&P's in IRS T1 transmissions for years with no issues.
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Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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oldschool5er
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 804
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:01 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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[quote="Double-Double"][quote="oldschool5er"][quote="petrol punk"][quote="oldschool5er"]
| Double-Double wrote: |
How much lift would you need for 930 to be worth it? Just out of curiosity. |
with stock arms it would not be worth it as you would end up with excessive positive camber and your stock lower and upper hard stops would keep you from using the full potential. In class 11 they do some mod's that make the T2 work better, but even then I see pivot modifications to correct the camber. I am not sure but I think they are not allowed to make those mods in the rule books but they still do it.
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Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:14 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| Do you think I should purchase some padded trans mounts to protect my frame horns? If so would you get the front and rear set? |
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oldschool5er
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007
Posts: 804
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| Double-Double wrote: |
| Do you think I should purchase some padded trans mounts to protect my frame horns? If so would you get the front and rear set? |
I might not be the guy to ask this as I always solid mount my transmissions and use a mid mount or padded strap at the nose. It is not something most people would like as it is very noisy, I am just used to it. Using padded straps don't really do anything to protect frame horns as they are just to lock the trans /engine combo in to the chassi because off road use tears out the stock rubber mounts eventually. The only good set of trans straps in my opinion were made by Crown who stopped making them decades ago. The Chinese cloned it but it just isn't the same and to do it correctly takes some welding on the horns not just a cheap bolt in strap kit. Maybe a cheap strap kit is better than nothing though and if you make sure the nose is really strapped in and no gaps then try it. At least you have the body off so it can be done right. I would solid mount the rear but thats just me. At some point you just have to decide how much offroad youre really going to do because the mods just don't stop, you can keep modding it forever. Welcome to the offroad world lol.
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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I think I am going to run this kit:
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D4785
I think between this kit and my Energy Suspension motor mounts I think I will be good to go. I am leaning towards this kit as insurance against trans mount failure. The Energy Suspension mounts are supposed to be harder than stock so it should firm up any flex but the whole setup should still be quieter than solid mounts so it will still be pleasant for the wife and daughter to come along in. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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I would have copied the image location (that takes the viewer to the web page, it DOESN'T take the image) to show others on here what you are talking about and give cip1.com some free advertising. But they are more worried about someone stealing their images (and it's EMPI's image, NOT cip1.com's) than they are about getting free advertising. If I wanted to steal their image, I could still steal it VERY easily without being a computer specialist.
Anyway...
That EMPI motormount set will work. Last time I installed one for a friend, the midmount strap was a real PITA to get installed. It took some cutting and welding to get it fitting right. Good thing it was a professional offroad raace car fabricator working on it. The owner of the car would have wound up throwing it in the trash (his words).
I agree with olschool5er that the Crown mount that EMPI one imitates was good. The EMPI is potentially usable.
So buyer beware.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
I would have copied the image location (that takes the viewer to the web page, it DOESN'T take the image) to show others on here what you are talking about and give cip1.com some free advertising. But they are more worried about someone stealing their images (and it's EMPI's image, NOT cip1.com's) than they are about getting free advertising. If I wanted to steal their image, I could still steal it VERY easily without being a computer specialist.
Anyway...
That EMPI motormount set will work. Last time I installed one for a friend, the midmount strap was a real PITA to get installed. It took some cutting and welding to get it fitting right. Good thing it was a professional offroad raace car fabricator working on it. The owner of the car would have wound up throwing it in the trash (his words).
I agree with olschool5er that the Crown mount that EMPI one imitates was good. The EMPI is potentially usable.
So buyer beware. |
Searched and searched and don’t see any other current manufacturer of padded trans straps so I may just be out of luck and have to use the EMPI. Would be the only EMPI part on my entire car except the shifter (I really dig those trigger shifters  ). |
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mkparker
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Sherman, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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Michael
Pit Boy 6163 Spec Trophy Truck |
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mkparker
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Sherman, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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Just ran across your build and it's looking great! I finished(sorta) my Class 11 Style Bug recently. It's a'65 body on a '72 pan. I'm running 235/75/15 BFGs on stock width/offset chrome Mangles. The 5.5" Mangles stuck out too far for my taste. They do rub, but not enough to be a concern, for me anyway. I used a similar trans strap as you showed. It wasn't too big a deal to make work.
I also have a Thing beam up front, 944 CVS and stub axles out back with notched springplates. Bilstein shocks all around.
Build here: https://www.aircoolers.org/v/showthread.php?45329-Here-we-go-again-Comet!
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Pit Boy 6163 Spec Trophy Truck |
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| mkparker wrote: |
Just ran across your build and it's looking great! I finished(sorta) my Class 11 Style Bug recently. It's a'65 body on a '72 pan. I'm running 235/75/15 BFGs on stock width/offset chrome Mangles. The 5.5" Mangles stuck out too far for my taste. They do rub, but not enough to be a concern, for me anyway. I used a similar trans strap as you showed. It wasn't too big a deal to make work.
I also have a Thing beam up front, 944 CVS and stub axles out back with notched springplates. Bilstein shocks all around.
Build here: https://www.aircoolers.org/v/showthread.php?45329-Here-we-go-again-Comet!
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Nice build! I read through the entire thing and if you don't mind I may copy your idea for the toolbox and jack mount locations in the trunk. I was looking to do something similar but I like your implementation.
I haven't gotten much done on the bug in the last week because I have been working on the nursery at my house, but I did receive a '62 glovebox and I am going to be cutting the front of it off to weld it to the stock door to fill in the gap. I am going to be doing all my welding on the 6th of January (have a friend coming out) so I am lining up projects and getting everything prepped for that.
I wish I could have found some 5.5" wheels with the correct offset so I could run 235/75R15 but the 215s will do just fine, and probably won't rub. I am not going to be putting a cage in just now, so I am just using KYB shocks for the moment until I get all the suspension figured out and measured and I will get some Bilstein as well for mine. I dig the patina look on yours very nice.
BTW, is that the AVG Flying Tigers from WWII? |
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mkparker
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Sherman, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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Copy anything you wish!
I'm sure you saw the tire/wheel combo with the 5.5" on my build. I didn't like it.
I really have no idea on the Flying Tigers in Paris. A buddy and I were coming back from a car show in Paris, pulled in and snapped some pics and left. Never saw anyone.
There's a super nice Green/White Class 11 legal car on here by mr_bill. I'll find a pic. Hes running 215 BFGs with Marathon wheels and they are perfect in my opinion!
Lot's more mr_bill here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693232&highlight=
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Michael
Pit Boy 6163 Spec Trophy Truck |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| mkparker wrote: |
| I also have a Thing beam up front, 944 CVS and stub axles out back with notched springplates. Bilstein shocks all around. |
I like the way your bug sits. How much of a notch are you running ?
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
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mkparker
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 332
Location: Sherman, Tx
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| Dark Earth wrote: |
| mkparker wrote: |
| I also have a Thing beam up front, 944 CVS and stub axles out back with notched springplates. Bilstein shocks all around. |
I like the way your bug sits. How much of a notch are you running ? |
Pretty close to 1/2" I believe. The rear has sagged a bit over time. I have stiffer torsions, but I just hate taking all back apart for a slightly droopy rear.
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Michael
Pit Boy 6163 Spec Trophy Truck |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| mkparker wrote: |
| Dark Earth wrote: |
| mkparker wrote: |
| I also have a Thing beam up front, 944 CVS and stub axles out back with notched springplates. Bilstein shocks all around. |
I like the way your bug sits. How much of a notch are you running ? |
Pretty close to 1/2" I believe. The rear has sagged a bit over time. I have stiffer torsions, but I just hate taking all back apart for a slightly droopy rear. |
Cool, thanks !
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My Build: '69 Baja - Dark Earth Version
~I'm almost done. I just lack finishing up.~ |
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Headliner
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2011
Posts: 29
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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Really like your build! Going to be a great car!
Also like the class 11 car above.
Here's some pics of my class 11 build
56 oval body on a 71 pan
Thing axles&flanges
31" POWER KING TIRES
3.5 raised spindles and raised beam
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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| Headliner wrote: |
Really like your build! Going to be a great car!
Also like the class 11 car above.
Here's some pics of my class 11 build
56 oval body on a 71 pan
Thing axles&flanges
31" POWER KING TIRES
3.5 raised spindles and raised beam
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Looks awesome! Tell me more about those tires I dig how they look like an old willy’s jeep tires. |
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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Got a little sheet metal work out of the way today after taking a week or two off for the holidays. I have decided to do all the welding on the 6th so I have to get everything ready for an all day weld-a-thon.
I cut the ‘62 glovebox door off at the bend with a cut off wheel. I then ground down the inside and will weld it to the original glovebox door and fill in where the hole for the latch doesn’t line up exactly.
I made patch panels for the original mirror mounting location, fuse panel location and for the ashtray which I will probably be mounting my cb radio mic in that location. I also got the dashboard holes prepped for welding closed. After I get the welding done next week I can final get about to rebuilding my chassis (which should go fast) and then prep the body for Raptor Liner. I am finally going to make some progress at that point.
Tomorrow I will call Rebel Wire (just missed them today) and get the size of their fuse panel so I can make the bracket that will go under the rear seat for the fuse panel, defroster relay and generator relay (unless I decide to go alternator, still not sure on that).
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12846
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner |
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| Double-Double wrote: |
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Keep your original seat tracks & transfer them to the new pans, the aftermarket tracks suck. |
Look and feel pretty stout to me. Sorry you’ve had bad experiences with them. I don’t think that will be the case here. |
If you haven’t welded in those pans yet, please at least inspect the spot welds securing the tracks, then do some more welding on the crappy tracks anyway:
I just remove yet another set. The driver side only had five spot welds per section & a total of three of those welds weren’t attached
These tracks are known for breaking loose from the pans just with street driving.
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GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
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Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Double-Double wrote: |
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Keep your original seat tracks & transfer them to the new pans, the aftermarket tracks suck. |
Look and feel pretty stout to me. Sorry you’ve had bad experiences with them. I don’t think that will be the case here. |
If you haven’t welded in those pans yet, please at least inspect the spot welds securing the tracks, then do some more welding on the crappy tracks anyway:
I just remove yet another set. The driver side only had five spot welds per section & a total of three of those welds weren’t attached
These tracks are known for breaking loose from the pans just with street driving. |
Here ya go bud! Took your advice and reinforced the welds on the seat rails.
Got the rest of the welding done today also but will post pics tomorrow since I am getting new carpet put in as we speak.
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Double-Double
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019
Posts: 640
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Double-Double’s '70 Class 11 Style Trail Runner Build |
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Got a lot done today! Got the welding all done including all the holes in the dash, the glovebox door, filing in the area the ash tray was, filing in the fuse panel hole and some holes I accidentally made removing emission brackets and of course the floorpan. I made a tray in the passenger side to attach my Rebel Wiring harness fuse panel to and the relay for the rear defroster. Reinforced the seat brackets, and made a custom battery bracket hold down. Attached the tubes for the heater cables and buttoned it all up. Then I took the engine off. I wanted all the chassis on it when we did the welding so the floorpans would be sitting where they would with the suspension on in case of flex or anything. The but welds, seat rails and brackets were done with tig and everything else mig.
I was amazed to find a good clutch and good brakes on the car, but I will be replacing all this anyways since I already ordered it, so I guess I will have a lot of spare parts. There is no groves in the drums so I will just have them turned down and put them in the attic as spares since I have new everything. Overall I am pleased with everything that got done this weekend and today and finally I am making progress on the bug. I like doing the mechanical side of the job much better than the painting prep. I can't wait to raptor the chassis and body so I can finally start getting things put back together.
I will post picks of my Rebel Wiring harness when it arrives. I ordered it last week and got a custom setup from Jeremy. He was very helpful in getting to know my build and all the unique situations I am presenting him. He is wiring in the flashers for me and also the hazards so they will all work properly and be plug and play.
I feel like I am finally making progress after spending so much time working around the house on projects! The black Steel-It paint should arrive sometime today so I can finally start painting the suspension pieces sometime this week. I also need to finish grinding down the welds on the dashboard.
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