Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Big plume of smoke.
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pburkeame
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 28
Location: British Columbia
pburkeame is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

No, I have the blessing of the original owner who I tracked down. He last owned it in 2003. He got fed up with it and sold it to someone who for some reason didnít transfer ownership. From what I understand, the original owner basically abandoned it because it was costing him too much money. I got transfer papers from him and he didnít seem to care. I did all the paperwork, but an out of province transfer requires an inspection which I got done. The inspector gave me a list of defects which I addressed, but the smoking came up and I had to deal with that. At this point I only have time and maybe $500 invested. Once the inspector is satisfied, the van is mine. Iím at peace with the van because if anything, Iíve learned a good deal so far.
_________________
1987 Vanagon Syncro, Manual
1987 Vanagon 2WD, Automatic
1986 DOKA Syncro, Manual
1980 Westphalia, 2WD, Manual (Under Construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
IdahoDoug
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 9836
Location: N. Idaho
IdahoDoug is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

PB - So you've had this van for nearly 2 years and you still have not gotten proper title to it? You need to walk away. I know BC has different systems, but you getting it "inspected" in any Western economy is NOT a precursor to ownership transferring from Person A to Person B.

In the US, a hand written bill of sale is about the lowest form of paper transferring ownership and the state asks the seller ID'd on the bill if they'll swear they were the legal owner and that they had the right to sell it to you. In BC there must be a parallel system. But it would NOT be submitting the car for inspection to get license plates, registration, stickers, etc. Otherwise how would ANYONE in BC buy a project collector car that's not running? What, they'd have to invest cash to get it running before the ownership transfer? What do you think the "seller" would do every time. Correct, they'd say "No I;m not transferring ownership now that the "buyer" turned my basket case into a show car.

That's crazy PB. Get your act together. Stop working on this vehicle or the "seller" is going to come take it away from you and sell it.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2016 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential. 1988 Mitsubishi Van w/ dual spinny seats, mid engine and solid axle.1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1992 Lexus LS400, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa project in pieces, 2002 BMW 325iX
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pburkeame
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 28
Location: British Columbia
pburkeame is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

No, they were the same guides. Once the van is in my name Iíll start sinking some money into it. I just wanted to see if that fixed the excessive smoking and it did. Itís almost like fresh mountain air coming out now.
_________________
1987 Vanagon Syncro, Manual
1987 Vanagon 2WD, Automatic
1986 DOKA Syncro, Manual
1980 Westphalia, 2WD, Manual (Under Construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 13412
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 3:10 am    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Those valve guides are shrunk fit into the head, did you use new ones or just put the old ones back in?
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pburkeame
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 28
Location: British Columbia
pburkeame is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

It looks like Wildthings was right on the money. I pulled the #1 and #2 head and removed both intake valves as the #1 guide was totally dislodged and #2 was backed out a ways. I removed both valve guides and reinstalled them. I eyeballed how far in they should go by the staining on the guides. I put the head back on using a seal kit from Concept 1 and crossed my fingers. I started the engine and she ran fine for what seemed like longer than it did before before smoking, but it did smoke still. I let it run for awhile and shut it down. I honestly felt defeated. Snooping around I heard what sounded like sizzling coming from the tail pipe. I concluded that excess oil from before had accumulated in the muffler and was burning off as the exhaust system heated up. So, I started it back up and let it cook away. I think itís getting better now. Over the next few days Iíll let it run for awhile. I will also monitor the position of the guides from the rocker area.

The reason I donít get new heads is because the van is not in my name just yet. I bought it off a salvage place that was not the legal owner and I have to get it inspected before I can get it transferred to my name. I donít want to sink a bunch of money into it until Iím the legal owner. That and there is a DOKA I want to buy right now. When I am the legal owner, the cascade of money will start.
_________________
1987 Vanagon Syncro, Manual
1987 Vanagon 2WD, Automatic
1986 DOKA Syncro, Manual
1980 Westphalia, 2WD, Manual (Under Construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tencentlife
Samba Member


Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 9961
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
tencentlife is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Yup, intake valve guide has come loose. Good detective work on the OP's part. Do not operate the engine any more. Heads have to come off with a pretty strong chance that head at least will not be worth trying to rebuild. Since the factors that lead to this damage are the same across the engine (low detergent fuel plus periods of non-use are the main reasons these engines are so prone to intake valve sticking), you should suspect the same for both heads.
_________________
See innovative Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
I don't use The Samba Private Messaging. Please use the contact link at www.intrepidoverland.com

"Official" IntrepidOverland thread for news and discussion:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.


Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4234
Location: Prescott, AZ
borninabus is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

that loose "brass tube" is a valve guide and it is allowing oil from the rocker box to get sucked into the combustion process.
continuing to drive it could cause severe damage if the valve comes loose!!

time to pull the head(s) Sad
_________________
71 Ghia - 88 Van - 87 Syncro Projecturewagon - 05 Passat Wagon TDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pburkeame
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 28
Location: British Columbia
pburkeame is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Doing further troubleshooting, I pulled the intake pipe from the #1 and #2 and I noticed a brass coloured tube around the intake valve stem that was loose. I think this may have some bearing on the excess exhaust smoking. I also noticed some oil around the spark plug. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.
_________________
1987 Vanagon Syncro, Manual
1987 Vanagon 2WD, Automatic
1986 DOKA Syncro, Manual
1980 Westphalia, 2WD, Manual (Under Construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 42680

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

pburkeame wrote:
Iíll drain and refill to the lower mark for now.

I did a compression check and it was 95 psi for 1 and 2 with a cold engine. Iím kinda ruling out the piston rings. My question now is how does oil lubricate the valves? Does oil splash around in the valve cover or through the rockers? Thanks.


Oil comes up through the pushrods from the lifters and then moves through small grooves and drillings in the rockers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pburkeame
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 28
Location: British Columbia
pburkeame is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Iíll drain and refill to the lower mark for now.

I did a compression check and it was 95 psi for 1 and 2 with a cold engine. Iím kinda ruling out the piston rings. My question now is how does oil lubricate the valves? Does oil splash around in the valve cover or through the rockers? Thanks.
_________________
1987 Vanagon Syncro, Manual
1987 Vanagon 2WD, Automatic
1986 DOKA Syncro, Manual
1980 Westphalia, 2WD, Manual (Under Construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 8670
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

jimf909 wrote:
...they'll tell you how full they prefer to be, it's usually no more than halfway between the fill marks.


My dipstick...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The arrows point to the factory marks but there is a third notch which I added... slightly below midway. I never fill above that mark.

This may mean that I have to check the oil more often but really should be doing that anyway (e.g. every day on a long trip).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jimf909 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 4369
Location: Seattle
jimf909 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

pburkeame wrote:
Ok, when running with low oil, it will run with no oil plume. I topped up the oil and it started smoking out the exhaust to beat heck. I pulled the #1 and #2 plugs and the #2 plug was dry and #2 was wet with oil. It all makes sense now. When I turned to the left the oil would slosh over to right side of the engine. My question is in this case what would be the most likely entry point for so muck oil? The valves or the piston rings? Thanks in advance.


Oil will enter the combustion chamber via valve guides, esp. on deceleration (at least on carb motor, carb closes, the piston sucks whereever it can, loose valve guides allow oil through to burn in the combustion chamberj.

Oil sloshing in the sump and during turns leaking through the rings is another possibility.

Your motor needs a leak-down test.

Regardless, boxer motors tend to use all the topped-up oil until they find equilibrium, i.e. they'll tell you how full they prefer to be, it's usually no more than halfway between the fill marks.
_________________
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.

Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
pburkeame
Samba Member


Joined: October 29, 2018
Posts: 28
Location: British Columbia
pburkeame is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Ok, when running with low oil, it will run with no oil plume. I topped up the oil and it started smoking out the exhaust to beat heck. I pulled the #1 and #2 plugs and the #2 plug was dry and #2 was wet with oil. It all makes sense now. When I turned to the left the oil would slosh over to right side of the engine. My question is in this case what would be the most likely entry point for so muck oil? The valves or the piston rings? Thanks in advance.
_________________
1987 Vanagon Syncro, Manual
1987 Vanagon 2WD, Automatic
1986 DOKA Syncro, Manual
1980 Westphalia, 2WD, Manual (Under Construction)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 42680

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

A valve guide that is loose in the head will cause white smoke for some reason and it will be worse when turning one direction verses the other.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vashon
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Vashon Island
Vashon is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Yaa !that be me in the vanagoplane . except the crash part . That was a stunt double.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 4994
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Vashon wrote:
blue smoke?white smoke? blue smoke not good. white smoke, maybe the catalytic converter . Had mine go out in grand style. I looked like mad max in a crop duster.

Almost unbelievably, I found actual footage of your catalytic breakdown:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge0rWxGedok
_________________
1984 Westy-Ferrari firing at 33% capacity
I drive by the seat of my pants but then get behind on my steering
Thank You Bob Lazier, Forever Golden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vashon
Samba Member


Joined: September 23, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Vashon Island
Vashon is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

blue smoke?white smoke? blue smoke not good. white smoke, maybe the catalytic converter . Had mine go out in grand style. I looked like mad max in a crop duster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 4994
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

^^^ This is exactly what I was going to say ^^^

We had an oil breather (tower) go bad once. In our case though, it would build up crankcase pressure on long downhills then WHAM, a UGE plume of oil smoke would bellow out like a mushroom cloud (blue in color, always) ((if only oil)).

It happened maybe four times before replacement (a used one). I do know the oil was overfilled a little one particular time when I thought the dipstick marks were a quart apart. I believe it's more like a pint.

I don't quite understand the process but the van almost stalled after this -- though during that time period the spark plugs would load up with fuel on long downhills anyway (possible vacuum leak).


Edit: Thanks for the reference to "new towers available," Jlr -- I thought they were long NLA.

Here's a link for those interested:
https://www.vancafe.com/Vanagon-Breather-System-s/2915.htm

And, Hello Vashon! 😎
_________________
1984 Westy-Ferrari firing at 33% capacity
I drive by the seat of my pants but then get behind on my steering
Thank You Bob Lazier, Forever Golden


Last edited by E1 on Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jlrftype7
Samba Member


Joined: July 24, 2018
Posts: 1494
Location: Chicago
jlrftype7 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Keep the oil level between the 2 marks on your Dipstick.
Filling the engine full to the top mark can cause oil burning that you donít see with a slightly lower oil level.
Really check the Breather Tower/ Crankcase breather, they go bad internally.
New ones are available and youíll need a new o-ring that seals the bottom of the tower to the engine to go with it.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- also long gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle, my wife's first car= yep. still long gone....
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
Ď84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RoryGirl
Samba Member


Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 370
Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
RoryGirl is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Big plume of smoke. Reply with quote

Power steering leaking onto the exhaust?
_________________
1991 Double door pop top conversion
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB