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RockStock Samba Member

Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: England
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Thank you for the encouragement and advice, Jack
I’ll give the garden wire a go.
We think the stumbling block is that kick-up to the conduit.
djfordmanjack wrote: |
wow, that is a LOT og paint on the chassis. 115*** is pretty late....  |
Thanks. 115, Feb 55...
Yes, most of what you can see there is original paint.
I’ve used various grades of wire brush, and also some wet & dry sandpaper.
It looks way better than it did - see my pictures here
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48738&start=60
A lesson in not just getting everything sandblasted.
djfordmanjack wrote: |
I still believe VW must have had a wire or similar provided to also pull the loom. |
Yes, must have done
Here’s a couple of pictures of the front conduit area on my bus.
Silt has built up here, and rotted it out - probably travelling up the open front end of the chassis rail?
The conduit sits up high, and passes through and past the diagonal plate.
This is located just behind the rhs front outrigger, and above the area where the beam support rails bolt up.
I could really do with a picture of the rear conduit exit area. _________________ -StockRocks- |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member

Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 1571 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Don't cut !!!
I'd get some 2mm garden fence wire ( the vinyl covered green one, it's slippery) instead of the flexible draw.
with the wire, roll a small , flat loop to it on the front tip, that will easily go inside the loom conduit. then while wiggling it back and forth, you can preshape the bends in the wire so it will at some point find its way into the conduit. I have even installed looms like this in Maserati Mistrals. and they are a bi*** also running the wire conduit in the outer rockers.
wow, that is a LOT og paint on the chassis. 115*** is pretty late....  _________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado
'51 Brezel project, Azurblau L36
'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'56 Oval, Polarsilber L324 og paint og chrome og everything |
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RockStock Samba Member

Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Help me out here...pull wire not finding the tube
Thinking of getting a different version of draw tape...using an endoscopic inspection camera...or cutting an access hole in the rear long rail.
This is the route I think it takes...
The square block is where I’m considering cutting...
_________________ -StockRocks- |
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BeaterBarndoor Samba Member

Joined: December 15, 2000 Posts: 789 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Always learning new things...
Figured I would ad this here.
While looking at an original Barndoor double door panel recently I noticed this support bracket. It looks crude and home made but I did just confirm originality by seeing it on other builds in here. Not really sure why It was needed but it’s there. I wasn’t able to roll around inspecting. Maybe another look is necessary. I’m now wondering if the ends are tacked in place or if they used this bracket method instead. Post barndoors I have seen did not have the bracket.
_________________ www.thebustransfer.com
Whaaaaat? |
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RockStock Samba Member

Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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djfordmanjack wrote: |
I believe the rear tube end should just extent inside the angled frame reinforcement,no? |
Yes - corrected
Just to put the two halves side-by-side:
_________________ -StockRocks- |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member

Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 1571 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:22 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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awesome chassis by Jeff !
here are some personal thoughts. Don't know whether true or not.
I believe the rear tube end should just extent inside the angled frame reinforcement,no?
another thought, of what you posted on the front frame loom routing.
I have that idea of what if they fed the wire loom with the chassis upside down ? gravitiy would help in feeding the wire loom over the rear torsion tube ( would slide under, when chassis is upside down). then it could find its way into the flared tube end. the angled frame reinforcment would guide the loom end down and into the tube. when the loom is pushed further and out of the front of the tube and being upside down it would also help finding its way through the front frame kickup.
I still believe they must have had a wire or similar provided to also pull the loom. _________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado
'51 Brezel project, Azurblau L36
'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'56 Oval, Polarsilber L324 og paint og chrome og everything |
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RockStock Samba Member

Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:29 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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djfordmanjack wrote: |
I still wonder how the loom is routed inside the rear kickup and if it goes under or over the torsion bar housing tube.
How in the world would it be fed in the loom tubing even with a flare.
Itis difficult enough to feed a leading wire and the loom on a bus without bellypans. When I built my (belly pan) chassis I put a 2mm steel wire in while building the rails, so I can later pull the wire loom. I wonder if they had something similar in Wolfsburg. |
Funny you should say that. I have a situation on a belly-pan bus where, after removing the loom, my feeder wire has become dislodged. So I need to thread the loom back through the bus blind...
It seems the loom has to be threaded through from the rear.
This is my thought on the rear loom routing:
I wonder if a tube also runs through the enclosed area, allowing you to thread the loom with relative ease above the cradle and torsion bar attachment points.
I intend to use a fish tape/draw tape.
Comments and advice welcomed!
(Thank you to Jeff at JC Welding Services for the chassis pictures)
http://jcweldingservices.co.uk/?portfolio-post=barndoor-chassis _________________ -StockRocks-
Last edited by RockStock on Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member

Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 1571 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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I still wonder how the loom is routed inside the rear kickup and if it goes under or over the torsion bar housing tube. and how in the world would it be fed in the loom tubing even with a flare. it is difficult enough to feed a leading wire and the loom on a bus without bellypans. When I built my (belly pan) chassis I put a 2mm steel wire in while building the rails, so I can later pull the wire loom. I wonder if they had somehting similar in Wolfsburg. _________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado
'51 Brezel project, Azurblau L36
'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'56 Oval, Polarsilber L324 og paint og chrome og everything |
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busben Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008 Posts: 456 Location: Somerset, UK
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Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Thanks dude  _________________ Project threads:
"51 Barndoor Basket Case"
"'20-020744 "The Tocksfors Rhd"
"Quality Sound 1954 Barndoor Deluxe Puzzle"
"The Regna '54 Deluxe"
"Duraclean 1954 Standard Logo Sunroof"
"The Québec forest '55 deluxe"
"1960 A1 Mobile Locksmith Bus with Logos" |
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RockStock Samba Member

Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Wiring Loom route detail, front
Schematic on how I think the loom/tube sits:
I'm guessing the naked loom just sits on the bottom of the arch there. _________________ -StockRocks- |
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RockStock Samba Member

Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3377 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Just to confirm my Feb 55 Deluxe has the loom tube.
Here is an original loom tube as seen on the June 1953 Greek School Bus (a Deluxe).
Picture is looking forwards towards the front right jackpoint area.
The tube sits up high in the rhs chassis rail.
Because of this location (as well as being covered by the belly pans), it is very rarely photographed.
Looks like the wiring tabs are still there, but unused.
Utilised for a naked harness, but redundant when the solid tube is fitted.
A theory as to why only the rear of the tube is flared is that the loom is threaded through from the rear, and the softer flaring will not cut into the loom. _________________ -StockRocks- |
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busben Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008 Posts: 456 Location: Somerset, UK
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Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Hey!! Thanks everyone, superb info.
Mark ..... you’re a legend dude  _________________ Project threads:
"51 Barndoor Basket Case"
"'20-020744 "The Tocksfors Rhd"
"Quality Sound 1954 Barndoor Deluxe Puzzle"
"The Regna '54 Deluxe"
"Duraclean 1954 Standard Logo Sunroof"
"The Québec forest '55 deluxe"
"1960 A1 Mobile Locksmith Bus with Logos" |
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Lowdown Dirty Rat Samba Member

Joined: June 25, 2005 Posts: 828 Location: Cornwall, UK
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Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Can someone post a pic of where the loom would enter and exit the tube.
Thanks. _________________ 1951 Samba 20-017894
1952 Samba 20-028952 |
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Tizian Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2015 Posts: 168 Location: Hamburg, Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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busben wrote: |
….and a couple of photos from the bullikartei forum.
So, does this exist on all belly pan buses? or introduced in a certain year? or??
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Nice to see my bus referenced here
I found another one where you can see the bend. It appears to be be on the same spot where the main frame bends, which makes sense.
Since you don’t have acces to this area once the pans are welded in, those tubes are necessary to get the looms installed afterwards - upon first installation or repair reasons. But it’s a pain getting the loom in there.
I decided to go for detachable pans to have access afterwards. |
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djfordmanjack Samba Member

Joined: June 15, 2009 Posts: 1571 Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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JFYI guys, the 22x1mm (20mm ID) tubing is the same size as the original shift rods. it is still easily available in Europe. _________________ Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins ! ______Barndoor + Kohlruss Coachbuilt DLX afficionado
'51 Brezel project, Azurblau L36
'52 BD Coachbuild project
'54 Oval Sunroof project with my son, L275 Lichtbeige
'55 Wolfsburg panel project, Taubenblau L31 all original paint
'56 Oval, Polarsilber L324 og paint og chrome og everything |
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BeaterBarndoor Samba Member

Joined: December 15, 2000 Posts: 789 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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Dug it out.
a couple shots and some specs on a sheet. not super accurate but close enough to get the idea.
I use our(USA) 3/4" galvanized electrical conduit when I make them. Its slightly larger in diameter and a tiny bit thicker but does the job.
The original I have has quite a bend/kink in it , this is how it was when I removed it from the chassis. I didnt find it necessary to have that great of a bend to the ones I have installed. Basically just bend enough to follow the frame rails as they transition front to rear.
The flare is at the rear of the bus.
_________________ www.thebustransfer.com
Whaaaaat? |
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busben Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008 Posts: 456 Location: Somerset, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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DSweinhagen wrote: |
All belly pan buses had the conduit. The '52 Deluxe I'm working on now does, so I'm pretty sure it started from the beginning. It looks just like the above pictures... Just a straight piece of tube running barely past the frame close outs at each end and tacked there. Then a tab in the middle tacked to the frame and the tube to keep it from rattling. I think the original tubing size was like 3/4" or 20mm. If I have to replace it I've used a little larger size tubing as some new wiring harnesses can be tight going through. |
Great info. Thanks so much for this Nice to get this right for the first time!  _________________ Project threads:
"51 Barndoor Basket Case"
"'20-020744 "The Tocksfors Rhd"
"Quality Sound 1954 Barndoor Deluxe Puzzle"
"The Regna '54 Deluxe"
"Duraclean 1954 Standard Logo Sunroof"
"The Québec forest '55 deluxe"
"1960 A1 Mobile Locksmith Bus with Logos" |
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busben Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2008 Posts: 456 Location: Somerset, UK
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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sled wrote: |
it looks pretty evident to me that the welding on the crossmember is not original, so I would be suspect of the belly pans and/or wiring originality.
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That’s a fair comment dude.
sled wrote: |
every belly pan bus Ive seen taken apart had the conduit
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Interesting. I’ve never noticed them on a bus, and certainly never saw my old welder install them on a deluxe ..... but then the guy who used to do my welding isn’t really a “detail” kind of guy and probably wouldn’t have known without being told. It’s nice to have confirmation from you, and others, on this, and I also agree with your factory comments. I just need some measurements now although I can get a pretty good idea from the photos tbh
Every day’s a school day eh!  _________________ Project threads:
"51 Barndoor Basket Case"
"'20-020744 "The Tocksfors Rhd"
"Quality Sound 1954 Barndoor Deluxe Puzzle"
"The Regna '54 Deluxe"
"Duraclean 1954 Standard Logo Sunroof"
"The Québec forest '55 deluxe"
"1960 A1 Mobile Locksmith Bus with Logos" |
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DSweinhagen Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2002 Posts: 334 Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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All belly pan buses had the conduit. The '52 Deluxe I'm working on now does, so I'm pretty sure it started from the beginning. It looks just like the above pictures... Just a straight piece of tube running barely past the frame close outs at each end and tacked there. Then a tab in the middle tacked to the frame and the tube to keep it from rattling. I think the original tubing size was like 3/4" or 20mm. If I have to replace it I've used a little larger size tubing as some new wiring harnesses can be tight going through. _________________ David S |
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sled Samba Member

Joined: February 16, 2005 Posts: 5616
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Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Wiring conduit details on belly pan Buses? |
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it looks pretty evident to me that the welding on the crossmember is not original, so I would be suspect of the belly pans and/or wiring originality.
every belly pan bus Ive seen taken apart had the conduit
Do we really think the factory would install the main wiring harness in a BARE METAL bus before welding the floor or belly pans on?? We know they were dipped in primer...I doubt that was done with the wiring harness in place?
_________________ drive your split. |
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