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2.0 ABA swap going turbo
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khughes
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

rogertj wrote:
Wow thats an awesome set up of the turbo I didnt knew that you could wet a pump to work with it, lots of reading to do. It seems that you have the FAS oil pan set up. NICE! Very Happy


Yes, the entire conversion including turbo setup is the FAS GenV kit. The pump is from Turbowerx and is designed as an oil sump pump for turbos and/or dry-sump installations. Not cheap, but not bad, and gives a lot of mounting flexibility for the turbo. The pump is in front of the left taillight so it gets plenty of cooling air. Electrically it's setup to run ~ 8 seconds after ignition is turned off to drain the lines and prevent 'coking' of the oil in the hot turbo. Worked perfectly so far Laughing
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rogertj
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

As I know the conversation got interesting about turbos setups in a Vanagon ABA 2.0 I will need to redirect the conversation to the harness. Yeah, I know... things got a little bit ... how should I say this.... mmmmm I'll say it in Spanish "De la Chingada"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

As you already know I stopped the fuel-injected swap a few months ago because of the covid financial crisis... well when you think that you have everything going it's not always the case.

I just found out that the ECU that I bought a couple of months ago is a OBD2... Check out my images:


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And my donor car is an OBD1


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so this takes me to the attractive nature of the OBD2 world because of the chip "soldered" or "not soldered" (To be or not to be now that confuses me) to upgrade it if needed with a cam and all the accessories for the turbo future of my Vanagon.

What do you think about getting an OBD2 harness? Would it be a pain in the but to make all the connections appropriate or should I stick with the OBD1?

Hope to hear your comments soon. Thanks to everyone who has helped with my build
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

ODB 2. Or an aftermarket stand-alone system. That stand-alone system would give you complete authority. A chipped stock system may lock you in to a specific tuner and if you make a change to the engine, back to the tuner.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
ODB 2. Or an aftermarket stand-alone system. That stand-alone system would give you complete authority. A chipped stock system may lock you in to a specific tuner and if you make a change to the engine, back to the tuner.


And what about the sensors, connectors etc difference between the harnesses OBD1/obd2 ? Will it be any difference that I need to keep an eye on? Any changes that I need to make?
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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dkoesyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Let's put this all back into perspective, what do you think?
• why do you want to go with a turbo?
• You do understand that the transaxle is only strong enough for 150 HP/TQ depending on talent of the driver this number is variable; Do you have money or intentions to build a trans to accept a few more ponys?
• What kind of van are you building heavy, med. or light, the overall reliability on the trans is now the fuse in this situation? Power+weight= struggling trans
The list goes on.....

My opinion, build your van now and enjoy it now tweek and chase ideas later! The truth is in most practical applications you have to have a baseline to see where improvements are needed.

This might not sound exotic or exciting but after all I assume you're using your van and not building a nurbering machine. Stock management, A euro "e" grind cam, techtonics had them a "low rpm performer", mk4 intake and exhaust manifold. Try this out! Most aftermarket options are for lightweight higher reving cars; few vanagon drivers go here. Build your van, drive it, enjoy it, modify as needed!
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

So you only have the ODB 2 ECU? Not sure how you’d go about it without the donor harnesses and parts. So I change my vote. Stick with what works and what you have. Save the incorrect ECU for another time.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

The OBD port shown was used for OBD1 and OBD2.

If you plan to remove the OBD2 ECU and engine harnesses from a parts car, a few clues indicating that the parts car is OBD2:

- evap purge valve (near air cleaner) is black.
- has motorized throttle body
- NO idle control valve
- has two O2 sensors (pre cat, post cat)
- has leak detection pump

I *think* OBD1 and OBD2 use the same amount, type, of sensors on the engine. And, the harnesses are likely the same design. BUT..... I would assume that the OBD2 engine harness has a different wiring design than OBD1.

One advantage of OBD2 is that you can get a generic code reader fairly easily and possibly use something like scan gauge.

Edit: you can use the "blink code" method to check and clear engine trouble codes under OBD1; you don't need a code reader. But to monitor information in real time like a Scan Gauge can do, you'd need to use VCDS with a laptop. IMO, doing that is inconvenient and ill advised. (driver distraction)

You can trouble shoot, diagnose, the OBD1 system using standard mechanics skills, the A3 Bentley manual (and internet) and blink codes. I did this on my '81 for many miles, even when far away from home. (although I'm not a trained mechanic Wink )

Some might suggest that OBD1 is not as refined as OBD2 but I found that OBD1 alerted me to a faulty (missing) sensor ground and an aging O2 sensor. (MIL would come on/off while driving)

If you don't buy VCDS or Scan Gauge you could be put the money saved towards a good oil pressure gauge. In some minor ways, an OBD1 conversion might cost a little less money and it is a little simpler than OBD2.

I'm not trying to say OBD2 is better or worse.

Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

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rogertj
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

tO dKOESYNCRO

Let's put this all back into perspective, what do you think?
• why do you want to go with a turbo? MORE POWER IN STREET AND HIGHWAY
• You do understand that the transaxle is only strong enough for 150 HP/TQ depending on talent of the driver this number is variable; Do you have money or intentions to build a trans to accept a few more ponys? NOT REALLY SO i THINK ILL KEEP IT AT 150 HP
• What kind of van are you building heavy, med. or light, the overall reliability on the trans is now the fuse in this situation? Power+weight= struggling trans THE TYPE OF VAN THAT I HAVE IS A TRANSPORTER, SO LIGHT ID GUESS? BECAUSE OF THE LOADS IN CAMPING TRIPS TO THE SIERRAS MAYBE IT GETS A LITTLE MORE LOADED NOT TO MUCH BECAUSE IS ONLY FOR 2 ADULTS AND 2 KIDS AND LOTS OF TREATS Very Happy
The list goes on.....

My opinion, build your van now and enjoy it now tweek and chase ideas later! The truth is in most practical applications you have to have a baseline to see where improvements are needed. I AGREE WITH YOU

This might not sound exotic or exciting but after all I assume you're using your van and not building a nurbering machine. Stock management, A euro "e" grind cam, techtonics had them a "low rpm performer", mk4 intake and exhaust manifold. Try this out! Most aftermarket options are for lightweight higher reving cars; few vanagon drivers go here. Build your van, drive it, enjoy it, modify as needed! YEAP THATS THE INTENTION, A CAM, AND EPROM CHIP FROM TT NEXT STEP AFTER IT RUNS AFTER THAT INVEST IN A TURBO WITH NO MORE THAN 150 HP
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
So you only have the ODB 2 ECU? Not sure how you’d go about it without the donor harnesses and parts. So I change my vote. Stick with what works and what you have. Save the incorrect ECU for another time.


Thanks Mark
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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rogertj
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
The OBD port shown was used for OBD1 and OBD2.

If you plan to remove the OBD2 ECU and engine harnesses from a parts car, a few clues indicating that the parts car is OBD2:

- evap purge valve (near air cleaner) is black.
- has motorized throttle body
- NO idle control valve
- has two O2 sensors (pre cat, post cat)
- has leak detection pump

I *think* OBD1 and OBD2 use the same amount, type, of sensors on the engine. And, the harnesses are likely the same design. BUT..... I would assume that the OBD2 engine harness has a different wiring design than OBD1.

One advantage of OBD2 is that you can get a generic code reader fairly easily and possibly use something like scan gauge.

Edit: you can use the "blink code" method to check and clear engine trouble codes under OBD1; you don't need a code reader. But to monitor information in real time like a Scan Gauge can do, you'd need to use VCDS with a laptop. IMO, doing that is inconvenient and ill advised. (driver distraction)

You can trouble shoot, diagnose, the OBD1 system using standard mechanics skills, the A3 Bentley manual (and internet) and blink codes. I did this on my '81 for many miles, even when far away from home. (although I'm not a trained mechanic Wink )

Some might suggest that OBD1 is not as refined as OBD2 but I found that OBD1 alerted me to a faulty (missing) sensor ground and an aging O2 sensor. (MIL would come on/off while driving)

If you don't buy VCDS or Scan Gauge you could be put the money saved towards a good oil pressure gauge. In some minor ways, an OBD1 conversion might cost a little less money and it is a little simpler than OBD2.

I'm not trying to say OBD2 is better or worse.

Neil.


Mine is an OBD1 I tested a OBD2 scan code reader and did not fit so it is definatelly an obd1 what i have so i guess ill chase an obd1 computer for now. Changing everything to OBD2 sounds a little to hard for me at this moment.
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

rogertj wrote:
Vanagon Nut wrote:
The OBD port shown was used for OBD1 and OBD2.


Mine is an OBD1 I tested a OBD2 scan code reader and did not fit so it is definatelly an obd1 what i have ......


Edit: I replied with information showing that the port you show was used for 'late 1994 (OBD1) and later cars' (OBD2). But, that information was irrelevant. You want to find an OBD1 ECU and as you stated, the wires shown in your image seem to confirm that you have an OBD1 wiring harness.

Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN


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rogertj
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Neil I think that your donor engines were made in Canada? or is this applicable for all models? Because for sure it did not fit my OBD2 reader I tried it several times with all the delicacy that I could handle and it did not go in. For sure the images look exactly identical but mine is not an obd2 for sure because I was researching and after 1995 the obd2 came underneath the dash however some came in the same location as mine (I think) Oh well this is a puzzle I need to figure out before I even try to mount the donor engine after machining maintenance. Thanks for always taking the time for answering.
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Hi Roger. Sorry if I confused matters. I deleted my previous post.

The donor cars I used for my engines, wiring, ECU etc were located in Canada. So yes, they were most likely sold new in Canada. Ironically, the engine block was made in Mexico, the head Germany, intake manifold, Canada! Wink

The 16 pin OBD2 port should be a "standardized" thing so not sure why your OBD2 code reader didn't fit. Anyhow......

If your wiring harnesses came from the same car you removed the engine from (shown below), I'm nearly 100% certain that the harness is OBD1

your engine shows that it has an idle control valve. Only OBD1 has this part. OBD2 does not.

And if the car you removed the wire harness from had a blue coloured EVAP charcoal canister purge valve, the harness is OBD1.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

So I just contacted Techtonics Tunning and they told me the following:

Quote:
Hi,

I would not turbo a ABA for Vanagon use. I also would use a smaller cam. A lot of Vanagon owners are using the 266 (270) cam. I also would not chip the computer. The ABA is a good engine for the Vanagon but needs to stay stock. The cam will help about 6-8hp.

https://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_p...m44gha58s7


So Im a little bit conserned about wich is the best path to take. What do you guys think about not getting the 150 HP that I can handle with the transaxle?
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
My opinion, build your van now and enjoy it now tweek and chase ideas later! The truth is in most practical applications you have to have a baseline to see where improvements are needed.

This might not sound exotic or exciting but after all I assume you're using your van and not building a nurbering machine. Stock management, A euro "e" grind cam, techtonics had them a "low rpm performer", mk4 intake and exhaust manifold. Try this out! Most aftermarket options are for lightweight higher reving cars; few vanagon drivers go here. Build your van, drive it, enjoy it, modify as needed!


I agree with these suggestions/ideas and had eluded to them earlier in this thread. So.....

my "vote": get a "stock" conversion running reliably, modify as needed.

I have not compared engine compressions or performed exact measurements of tire diameters but my 1988 Westy with self rebuilt ABA has better acceleration than the ABA (not rebuilt) in my 1981 Westy. Both have a WBX manual transmission. One transmission was rebuilt but I assume they installed a WBX ring and pinion. There could be other factors affecting engine performance differences but......

Assuming you'd rebuild your ABA if you wanted to add a turbo, you may find a rebuilt ABA powerful enough without a turbo.

"speed costs money, more speed costs more money!" Wink

This is just my $0.02 CAD but I'd much rather have a reliable engine conversion vs a conversion that might have more "bugs" to work out. Before COVID, I was doing lots of road trips. So reliability was my goal.

Neil.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Thanks Nut for reminding me about what DKOESYNCRO had told me. ok got it. Yeah I really dont have the resources anyways to do a big build right now so the "stocker" the better... Very Happy And then when the piggy bank gets more funds ill head to the turbo. Who nows maybe I turn out to do diferent swap in the future.

This lego deal is fun so cant wait! Very Happy
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

IMO, the 266 or G grind was a lot of fun in my rabbit. That was a lightweight car and a mild performance cam was easily felt. A turbo is a very effective and econimical way to make power. Bridging vanagons and the tuner market is an art in itself, the VW aftermarket is intended for street cars not camping box cars.

Get your ABA together with what you have, it's easy to change it around later
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

You got it my frind will go from here on, thanks for the words. Will start from what I have
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Look got I found in the yunkyard for 50 dlls. I know that maybe its not the correct forum to do this question but maybe you do know more than me about this, what do you think about blow thru turbo and draw thru turbo for a 32/36 carburetor with a 1.8 jetta 1985 head installed in my 2.0 ABA? could it work? Is it to much compression with this head? I was planning this crazy idea to go turbo on my carburetor because I need fewer components in the mean while before I go EFI and based on what I have right know as I still dont have the ECU, harness and bentley, #30 injectors, chip, maybe a low cam etc etc etc

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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

An SU or Stromberg carb would be better suited for a turbo application. I just don’t think the Weber will work with the boost in the throttle plates. It depends on low pressure to pull the fuel out of the bowl.

While vintage in their design, the SU carb meters fuel based on air flow, not low pressure. I could also be wrong.
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