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2.0 ABA swap going turbo
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rogertj
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Making progress on the harness!

Before

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After

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I haven't hooked it up to the scanner I hope that tomorrow arrives in the mail to test it just to see the codes. I'm excited!
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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dkoesyncro
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

In regards to the euro audi manifold it does take a special fuel rail. You're looking for the 1.6 ADP engine from an Audi A4.
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
In regards to the euro audi manifold it does take a special fuel rail. You're looking for the 1.6 ADP engine from an Audi A4.


Thanks Dkoesyncro! That's the one I have in target by coinsidence! The other one had a bunch of compatible motors I even saw one that the European Passat uses. Who would of knew... Thanks again! Lets get this Tincan on the road!
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Made a lot of progress today on the harness,

Couldn't get it to work at the first try, so watched some videos and resolved it, the power supply relay wire didn't had + current in order to make it work so I plugged in the B+ wire on there for testing purposes and it went click click click until I stuck in there.

After that I tested the harness and to my surprise, it seems that the OBD2 (My engine is OBD1 for some reason) did pick up the readings, I bought (without knowing) a cheap cloned Bluetooth ELM reader here in Mexico so I plugged it with the "light" version Torque scanner software that they recommend here and it only gave me 3 readings but it was very weird as I was expecting a bunch of more codes, here's what it read

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Then after that, I plugged in a Harbor Freight scanner, it gave me 6 readings, the 3 prior plus 3 more, so I said hmmm what if there's a more sophisticated APP for the scanner so I downloaded the real software for the ELM scanner and this is what it gave me for the second time as the Harbor Freight gave me.

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
DTC report
Selected brand: Volkswagen

============1==============
P0341
Raw code: 0341
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Confirmed
OBDII: Camshaft position (CMP) sensor A, bank 1 - range/performance problem
Volkswagen: Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Performance

============2==============
P0501
Raw code: 0501
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Confirmed
OBDII: Vehicle speed sensor (VSS) - range/performance problem
Volkswagen: Vehicle Speed Sensor Range/Performance

============3==============
P0103
Raw code: 0103
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Confirmed
OBDII: Mass air flow (MAF) sensor/volume air flow (VAF) sensor - high input
Volkswagen: Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit High Frequency

============4==============
P1544
Raw code: 1544
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Pending
Volkswagen: A/C Refrigerant Condition Very Low; Throttle Actuation Potentiometer Signal too High

============5==============
P0121
Raw code: 0121
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Pending
OBDII: Throttle position (TP) switch A/accelerator pedal position (APP) switch A - range/performance problem
Volkswagen: TP Sensor Circuit Insufficient Activity

============6==============
P1500
Raw code: 1500
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Pending
OBDII: Vehicle Speed Sensor Intermittent
Volkswagen: Starter Signal Circuit; Fuel Pump Relay Circ. Electrical Malfunction

To my surprise, it seems that the ECU had some history on it

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I wonder what VCDS paid original cables would give me?

So just to confirm if it will fire up I'll now concentrate on finishing the Engine to install it and then try to fire up this baby. Darwn, I wish I could have the penny to put the Turbo in it but it will have to wait, for now.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

I forgot to ask if pin 9 that is the power supply relay didn't work when connecting to the power supply relay it could be that the ECU pin is damaged? I checked for continuity and the wire is fine, the ECU looks fine, no burned areas,

That pin 9 wire goes according to Bentley to power supply relay 86A according to Bentley Page 97-149 , the relay worked fine when I jumped the wire from the battery terminal to the relay it was scanning for codes.

Thanks in advance
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Under OBD1 on the ABA, in my experience, after disconnecting then reconnecting the battery, then not starting engine but turning key to ignition on to check for DTC's (which is similar or same to powering ECU on the work bench), the only code I see is for RPM sensor. That is normal and is noted in the A3 Bentley. The ECU has to see a running engine i.e. see inputs from RPM sensor, distributor, possibly ignition coil, in order for it to be able to detect for faults.

On the OBD1, the ECU has to have constant + to ECU 54. This maintains a memory for things like DTC codes. Disconnecting the battery erases the DTC codes or "history".

OBD2 is very different than OBD1. I'd ignore those "passed" "not passed" DTC's.

An ABA engine long block can use either OBD1 or OBD2.

Neil.



rogertj wrote:
... the power supply relay wire didn't had + current in order to make it work so I plugged in the B+ wire on there for testing purposes and it went click click click until I stuck in there.

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
DTC report
Selected brand: Volkswagen

============1==============
P0341
Raw code: 0341
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Confirmed
OBDII: Camshaft position (CMP) sensor A, bank 1 - range/performance problem
Volkswagen: Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Performance

============2==============
P0501
Raw code: 0501
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Confirmed
OBDII: Vehicle speed sensor (VSS) - range/performance problem
Volkswagen: Vehicle Speed Sensor Range/Performance

============3==============
P0103
Raw code: 0103
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Confirmed
OBDII: Mass air flow (MAF) sensor/volume air flow (VAF) sensor - high input
Volkswagen: Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit High Frequency

============4==============
P1544
Raw code: 1544
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Pending
Volkswagen: A/C Refrigerant Condition Very Low; Throttle Actuation Potentiometer Signal too High

============5==============
P0121
Raw code: 0121
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Pending
OBDII: Throttle position (TP) switch A/accelerator pedal position (APP) switch A - range/performance problem
Volkswagen: TP Sensor Circuit Insufficient Activity

============6==============
P1500
Raw code: 1500
ECU: OBD-II
Status: Pending
OBDII: Vehicle Speed Sensor Intermittent
Volkswagen: Starter Signal Circuit; Fuel Pump Relay Circ. Electrical Malfunction

To my surprise, it seems that the ECU had some history on it

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I wonder what VCDS paid original cables would give me?

So just to confirm if it will fire up I'll now concentrate on finishing the Engine to install it and then try to fire up this baby. Darwn, I wish I could have the penny to put the Turbo in it but it will have to wait, for now.


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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Connecting positive straight to ECU 23 bypasses the power supply relay and might also negate the need for positive to ECU 38.

86a of power supply relay is a ground connection. ECU 9 "supplies" ground to 86a of power supply relay.

If figure 9 on P. 24a-11 Bentley is viewed in a more literal manner, the ignition switch "wiring" doesn't seem correct. It might apply to OBD2 but.....

To me the logic for Motronic 2.9 OBD1 is:

- batt supplies constant + to ECU 54 to maintain ECU memory
- key turned to ignition on energizes part of ECU (and ignition coil). See 97-148
- once that part of ECU is energized, the ECU then "supplies" a ground to power supply relay which causes switch in relay to close thus supply + to another part of ECU and other parts like fuel injectors etc.

Do not use a VOM or other test apparatus on the ECU. When you set VOM to Ohms then test for continuity, you are passing a voltage through parts.

If positive to ECU 54 is missing, engine will still start and run ok. On my first swap, that wire was not connected for many miles. Shocked But, engine ran ok. The only noticeable issue was that on a warm engine, idle would "hunt" up and down then settle. Thinking about that now, I do wonder if that missing positive caused an imbalance in power circuit which in turn caused burns to two or more points in copper path (ground I think) on PCB of ECU. I kind of doubt it though.

Neil.



rogertj wrote:
I forgot to ask if pin 9 that is the power supply relay didn't work when connecting to the power supply relay it could be that the ECU pin is damaged? I checked for continuity and the wire is fine, the ECU looks fine, no burned areas,

That pin 9 wire goes according to Bentley to power supply relay 86A according to Bentley Page 97-149 , the relay worked fine when I jumped the wire from the battery terminal to the relay it was scanning for codes.

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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Thanks Neil for your response I tried to trigger the fuel pump relay and O2 relay but they didn't click click click does this only work with components connected or I can make them work on the bench? I tested the fuel pump and the relay is ok the O2 is new, I'm using universal relays just to be on the safe side when traveling

Vanagon Nut wrote:
Connecting positive straight to ECU 23 bypasses the power supply relay and might also negate the need for positive to ECU 38.

86a of power supply relay is a ground connection. ECU 9 "supplies" ground to 86a of power supply relay.

If figure 9 on P. 24a-11 Bentley is viewed in a more literal manner, the ignition switch "wiring" doesn't seem correct. It might apply to OBD2 but.....

To me the logic for Motronic 2.9 OBD1 is:

- batt supplies constant + to ECU 54 to maintain ECU memory
- key turned to ignition on energizes part of ECU (and ignition coil). See 97-148
- once that part of ECU is energized, the ECU then "supplies" a ground to power supply relay which causes switch in relay to close thus supply + to another part of ECU and other parts like fuel injectors etc.

Do not use a VOM or other test apparatus on the ECU. When you set VOM to Ohms then test for continuity, you are passing a voltage through parts.

If positive to ECU 54 is missing, engine will still start and run ok. On my first swap, that wire was not connected for many miles. Shocked But, engine ran ok. The only noticeable issue was that on a warm engine, idle would "hunt" up and down then settle. Thinking about that now, I do wonder if that missing positive caused an imbalance in power circuit which in turn caused burns to two or more points in copper path (ground I think) on PCB of ECU. I kind of doubt it though.

Neil.



rogertj wrote:
I forgot to ask if pin 9 that is the power supply relay didn't work when connecting to the power supply relay it could be that the ECU pin is damaged? I checked for continuity and the wire is fine, the ECU looks fine, no burned areas,

That pin 9 wire goes according to Bentley to power supply relay 86A according to Bentley Page 97-149 , the relay worked fine when I jumped the wire from the battery terminal to the relay it was scanning for codes.

_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

rogertj wrote:
....does this only work with components connected or I can make them work on the bench?


On the bench, with all parts and power connected to harness, you should be able to do the tests shown on P. 24a-12, 13, 14 15.

Some test conditions specify ignition on or off. Disconnecting battery power to ECU 38 should accomplish that. (in wiring diagrams you should see a wire from 15 buss to coil and ECU. Ignition switch controls 15 buss). As far as I know, battery power would otherwise remain connected to ECU during these tests.

After testing the harness, wrap it minimally, lay it out in a safe manner, connect it, test start the engine. If needed, fuel pump and power supply relays can be bypassed for testing purposes.

As with the Vanagon ECU, Mk3 ECU failure is not common.

As you've probably done, you can test the relays by themselves.

Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

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rogertj
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Didn't know it was going to take that long for working on the bench on the harness Ill concentrate on the engine, for now, my but hurts after one week of sitting on a chair for hours working for this thing... After I finish the engine ill hook it up and fired up it has 110k miles on it and it was reported running but after seeing those codes Ill probably go for honing, rings and bearings at a minimum and the block of plate because today Iwhen I flipped the engine on the stand I broke the breathing tube... Rolling Eyes I mean it has only been 26 years Shocked Lt. Blue Vanagon

Vanagon Nut wrote:
rogertj wrote:
....does this only work with components connected or I can make them work on the bench?


On the bench, with all parts and power connected to harness, you should be able to do the tests shown on P. 24a-12, 13, 14 15.

Some test conditions specify ignition on or off. Disconnecting battery power to ECU 38 should accomplish that. (in wiring diagrams you should see a wire from 15 buss to coil and ECU. Ignition switch controls 15 buss). As far as I know, battery power would otherwise remain connected to ECU during these tests.

After testing the harness, wrap it minimally, lay it out in a safe manner, connect it, test start the engine. If needed, fuel pump and power supply relays can be bypassed for testing purposes.

As with the Vanagon ECU, Mk3 ECU failure is not common.

As you've probably done, you can test the relays by themselves.

Neil.

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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

After getting the harness installed and engine running "ok", I found that for various reasons I had to go in and do those Bentley tests anyways. I didn't do those tests before I tried a trial start of engine.

Yes it's a lot of work, especially if that kind of work is new to a person. Even just learning how to read the wiring diagrams takes time. BTDT. And on an old harness it isn't just cutting and pruning wires. There are usually some repairs involved.

It would be interesting to take a poll of how many people actually do their own engine conversion harnesses. I'd guess that most send that work out.

Neil.

rogertj wrote:
Didn't know it was going to take that long for working on the bench on the harness

Vanagon Nut wrote:
After testing the harness, wrap it minimally, lay it out in a safe manner, connect it, test start the engine.

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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Yes Definitely is a lot of work on the harness, I mean mechanics has always been my strongest point I'd guess because is just losing and tighten bolts and measuring stuff but reading and understanding diagrams is another world, Let me start that poll Question Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Very Happy

After I install my engine I'm definitely going to run those tests as the Bentley suggests because being on the road dead is no fun plus buying an extra of each sensor and component Pray

Quote:
After getting the harness installed and engine running "ok", I found that for various reasons I had to go in and do those Bentley tests anyways. I didn't do those tests before I tried a trial start of engine.

Yes it's a lot of work, especially if that kind of work is new to a person. Even just learning how to read the wiring diagrams takes time. BTDT. And on an old harness it isn't just cutting and pruning wires. There are usually some repairs involved.

It would be interesting to take a poll of how many people actually do their own engine conversion harnesses. I'd guess that most send that work out.

Neil.

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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Did a lot of progress with the engine these past weeks, after being on hold because the pistons rings were delayed I took a risky decision on leaving the 110k mile old ones on the engine because it was in good condition just seeing at the cylinders.

I got my leak down tester yesterday and did the test and for God's grace everything is either at cero (Set) or below 10% in the acceptable range, Ill get a compression tester and do that also. Heres a pic of the "beast" Lol!

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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Making more progress and got more parts in. The waiting time is painful being in this side of the border during the pandemic... Cant wait to install it in the van and begin the final lap!

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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Got more parts in the mail!


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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Finally installed the block in the engine bay, I had several difficulties installing it since the studs that go to the tranny were installed and I finally realized why everyone installs the ABA or basically all motors from the bottom up. I had to disassemble the crank pulley and even then I had difficulties installing it from top to bottom but eventually could install it.

I got my glowshift thread corrected partnumber in the mail and installed that, I just new that they sell the long wire harness for the oil preassure sensor and will be ordering that at the end of the month but maybe I just figure it out with some other wires, I want the custom one. But I can do tests with the one I was provided with.

The serpentine belt was not the measure that I needed with the AC delete (wish I had AC with this weather) and and I ordered the wrong copper fiting for the european ADP fuel rail.

To my surprise the current setup that I have for the motor suport did fit apropiately in regards the angle of the diesel oil pan so thats a plus I was actually just improvising because of time and money and I am happy that it turned out ok in that regard.

now for the plumbing, intake, fuel, harness and all other fun stuff.

I have managed to work from 6 or 7 AM till 9 till the sun comes out because its burning the skin I dont have shade so IIll keep it up


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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Nice to see your engine in its' new home Roger!

Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
Nice to see your engine in its' new home Roger!

Neil.


Thanks Nut We are getting near firing this engine.

Today I worked on the power steering because I needed to place the serpentine belt because I needed to install the power steering belt. Yeah I know it's a word game 🎯

I first thought that I could work with the power steering bracket that my conversion came with, but it was a no go.

I eventually had to cut the "new" bracket to make it fit to the Cabrio thermostat housing but I just couldn't get it to fit so I redid everything and went for the original housing. From there on everything went smooth.

After installing this two components I had to redirect the power steering pressure line so it can fit. Everything was snug fit and now I need to concentrate on a engine Carrier system because it will not fit with the new power steering setting.

Tomorrow is a new day.

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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
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Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 503
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

Today I got to do the engine mounting support bracket, yeah I know maybe it seems a little but for working on the street and with no resources left due to pandemic it's a miracle that I'm advancing.

I think I'm gonna leave the power steering adjustment alone due to I had to pull it apart from block because then my current.engine support set up wouldn't fit. I will weld it afterwards if needed all suggestions welcome


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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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rogertj
Samba Member


Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 503
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
rogertj is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) Reply with quote

By the way that ground clearance will most probably increase because the engine is on a jack stand. Looking good!
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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