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rogertj
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Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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 Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Made more progress this past week I'm on the last stretch! Its just a matter of connecting all the relays because its kind of hard when you come from the carbureted ABA... the bentley doesn't specify some things. Others its a great help but boy o boy its hard for sure. No wonder they charge so much for conversions. Now I know the true meaning of those prices and why do they keep so many secrets on so many builds.
Right now I'm struggling with the connection of the HO2 sensor relay im all mixed up, cant quite get it not even with the bentley, A2 resource diagram and YouTube videos of how to connect relays. The one that I can confirm today as working is the fuel pump relay. i got all exited when I heard the darn thing go  hope not to have leaks because it sure smelled big time. don't know if its the fumes because it does not have a full tank or at least enough to recircule the fuel and maintains liquid circulation healthy. Don't know pray for me please 
Big thanks to Dillon (Dkoesyncro) and Neill (Vanagon Nut) and all the rest of the gang that have supported true this build. Even when I wanted to do it more quickly but things happen for a reason.
Any help would be much appreciated on the relay world. And on Sensors that go on the evaporative system and the charcoal canister of the ABA. When I got my hands in the donor engine it wasn't complete so I didn't take photos of all those connections.
Thanks Again!
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Hi Roger.
Just so you know, the HO2S relay does not need to be connected in order to test start the engine.
For OBD1.....
It appears you're using generic relays. If so.....
HO2S relay 2 (30 on generic relay), gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 (via a fuse).
Relay pin 4 (85 on generic relay) gets negative from ECU.
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay.
Relay 8 (87 on generic relay), connects to O2 heater. The other side of heater goes to ground.
Do you have the original HO2S relay socket? It has pin numbers that coincide with the wiring diagram. I posted a diagram for that in this forum, somewhere. 
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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rogertj
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Hi Roger.
Just so you know, the HO2S relay does not need to be connected in order to test start the engine.
For OBD1.....
It appears you're using generic relays. If so.....
HO2S relay 2 (30 on generic relay), gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 (via a fuse).
Relay pin 4 (85 on generic relay) gets negative from ECU.
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay.
Relay 8 (87 on generic relay), connects to O2 heater. The other side of heater goes to ground.
Do you have the original HO2S relay socket? It has pin numbers that coincide with the wiring diagram. I posted a diagram for that in this forum, somewhere.
Neil. |
Nut sorry for the late reply I thought that I would be able to start the engine with your advice and then suddenly post the glorious video of the first engine start but it was a no go, I did manage to fix the ignition solenoid because the guys that had the van made a mess so that was a cool thing to fix. I did managed also to find the key switch positive due to it had a previous conversion as you know an wires where on the engine bay but I think it was simple ti find them.
check out the crank, it hears solid to me:
Link
Its going to be a great engine!
Getting back at my confusions, I'm confused with the numbers of wires that you use on your web page with your build in OBD1, let me put what you wrote and then make some questions because its obvious im making something wrong.
1.- Basically, the engine harness remains uncut, some ECU harness wires get cut, (you'll be repairing some anyway) with positives eventually connected to either Vanagon ignition switched power (15 buss) or "battery power" (B+ aka 30 buss). A3 Bentley shows required additional fuse for fuel pump and HO2S relays; they share that fuse. Since I ran a new wire from starter motor 30 to 30 on the Motronic "Power Supply" relay, though the wiring diagrams don't show one, I added a fuse on that supply wire.
When you say "to 30 on the Motronic Power supply" I get it that you are referring to the original vanagon management of the vanagon but the problem is that I do not have that system anymore since I bought the van and I had never put any efort in to the electronics so what I know that I have is a key turn positive on switch and a couple of wire that used to go to the coil but I don't identify them as having current or ground. So I would like to know what do you mean by "30 on the Motronic power supply"
2.- - Vanagon ignition switch 15 positive to Mk3 ignition coil black 2.5 wire (track 31) and ECU 38 black 0.5 wire. (track 34) Ok I get it that is the following track from page 97-148 from the Bentley in my case that is a 95
The question would be: track 31 goes to the ignition distributor as in the picture above shows but I cant find no coil on that track... and if I use logic no engine harness goes to distributor however above the ignition distributor in the bentley it does shows the coil. Theres black wires going to the coil are does the ones that you are refering to?
And I cant find (track 34) its blank in my bentley (ECU 38 black 0.5 wire.)
3.- - OEM Mk3 3 Connector Power Supply relay and diagram: using diagram on that relay, though not shown, 30 connects internally to one side of relay switch coil (Bentley diagram and my understanding of how the Power Supply relay works). So, Vanagon B+ to relay 30, relay 85 to ECU 9, relay 87 to red/blue wire supplying positive to E7 junction ("plus connection.... motronic harness"). E7 supplies positive to fuel injectors, ECU 23 etc. Follow ECU 23 wire to E7 and/or trace for continuity between ECU 23 and power supply relay 87
So batery + to relay 30
relay 85 to ECU wire 9
relay 87 to red blue wire E7 junction I have it identified but whats "plus conection motronic harness
Whats ECU 23? Isnt it the wire that goes to the junction to the inyectors and evap canister? Thats what the A2 resource diagram indicates
4.-[/img]Mk3 fuel pump relay: Vanagon B+ to 30, fused 87 to fuel pump, ECU 6 to fuel pump relay 85, fuel pump relay 86 to B+ (again, positive to 86 appears to be wired inside the OEM fuel pump relay)
ok Batery + to 30 relay
Fused 87 to fuel pump
ECU wire #6 to relay 85 pin
Relay 86 to B+ ok but I have a Question --->what B+ batery + or ignition +? because as soon as I turn the key on to acc the fuel pump doesnt turn off it just keeps going and going so that means no radio in camping area
5.- HO2S HO2S relay 2 (30 on generic relay), gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 (via a fuse).
Relay pin 4 (85 on generic relay) gets negative from ECU.
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay.
Relay 8 (87 on generic relay), connects to O2 heater. The other side of heater goes to ground.
Do you have the original HO2S relay socket? It has pin numbers that coincide with the wiring diagram. I posted a diagram for that in this forum, somewhere.
No, I dont have the original relay socket...
HO2S relay 2 I dont know whats relay 2 however I have 30 on generic relay so it gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 via a fuse thats easy money got it
Relay pin 4 I dont have relay pin 4 only 85 on generic relay, gets negative from ECU. ---> Do you remember what ECU cable is negative? theres several... is there one designated for the HO2S ? Or should I just grab what ever ground wire from ECU?
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay. ---> I dont have relay 6 only 86 on a generic relay. Thats easy money
Relay 8 I dont have relay 8 what I have is 87 on generic relay. Connects to O2 heater---> Where is this? Is it the oxigen sensor going to the mufler or am I really confused?. The other side of heater goes to ground ---> I gues same question here what do you mean by heater.
By the moment those are all the questions that I have let me know your bank account to deposit a 6 pack of beer!
[/youtube]
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Last edited by rogertj on Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vanagon Nut
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Hi Roger. This is turning into more than a 6 pack of beer.  LOL. I'm joking of course.
But seriously, I think the content on my web page is over written and confusing. I may delete that page(s).
30 is the term VW uses to indicate positive from battery-alternator circuit. I sometimes write the word "B+" in place of "30". B+ means the same thing as 30.
In the wiring diagrams, Bentley uses the word "plus" for various positive connections in the harness. I used the word "positive". Those two words mean the same thing.
Beware: some black wires in the harness connect to ground. But...
Yes. The black wires I refer to, tracks 31 and 34, are positive wires; they show as connecting to the 15 buss at top of the page. Ignore the distributor wires shown on track 31. The ignition coil (N157) is shown on track 31.
In the harness, if you follow the larger 2.5 gauge black wire (track 31) from the ignition coil plug, it should lead you to G1 plus connection in harness. The 0.5 gauge black wire (track 34) to ECU 38 should come from that G1 plus connection.
Part of the harness does connect to distributor. (G40 hall sensor that's on distributor).
As shown at bottom of the Bentley diagram page, E7 is a plus connection to various loads. ECU 23 is a load on that E7 plus connection supplied by power supply relay 87. The ECM test tables show ECU 23 as "ECM power supply".
re: fuel pump running key to acc on (ignition on). Two possible causes:
- you accidentally connected a ground to relay 85 (incorrectly swapped ECU 9 for 6 ??)
- a previous owner changed the Vanagon wiring so that the fuel pump runs when key is turned to acc on
I'd disconnect ECU then test if a ground is present (should not be) at fuel pump relay pin 85.
It seems to me the issue has something to do with 15 positive from ignition switch.
Page 24a-12 shows tests you can (should) do.
30 (B+) should connect to fuel pump relay 86. This is basically what is shown in the diagram.
The fuel pump relay is activated on the ground side. That ground comes from the ECU when engine is running.
By "relay 2.... relay 8" I meant: "relay pin 2.... relay pin 8" as shown on the HO2S relay socket.
The oxygen sensor has a heater built into it. The HO2S relay controls that heater. The O2 connector has 4 pins: two are for the sensor itself and connect to ECU the other two are positive and ground for that heater. Ground is supplied from the main ground connection at the engine block.
There are several ground connections in the harness. However, they all end up connecting to the engine block. The Mk3 Jetta has a smaller sized ground strap between a securing bolt at ignition coil (connects to body metal) and engine at a valve cover nut/stud.
This diagram may be of some use:
fuel pump relay diagram from A3 Bentley. You can see how 30 connects inside relay to one side of the relay switch coil:
Neil.
| rogertj wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
For OBD1.....
It appears you're using generic relays. If so.....
HO2S relay 2 (30 on generic relay), gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 (via a fuse).
Relay pin 4 (85 on generic relay) gets negative from ECU.
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay.
Relay 8 (87 on generic relay), connects to O2 heater. The other side of heater goes to ground.
Do you have the original HO2S relay socket? It has pin numbers that coincide with the wiring diagram. I posted a diagram for that in this forum, somewhere.
Neil. |
.... your web page with your build in OBD1, let me put what you wrote and then make some questions because its obvious im making something wrong.
1.- Basically, the engine harness remains uncut, some ECU harness wires get cut, (you'll be repairing some anyway) with positives eventually connected to either Vanagon ignition switched power (15 buss) or "battery power" (B+ aka 30 buss). A3 Bentley shows required additional fuse for fuel pump and HO2S relays; they share that fuse. Since I ran a new wire from starter motor 30 to 30 on the Motronic "Power Supply" relay, though the wiring diagrams don't show one, I added a fuse on that supply wire.
When you say "to 30 on the Motronic Power supply" I get it that you are referring to the original vanagon management of the vanagon but the problem is that I do not have that system anymore since I bought the van and I had never put any efort in to the electronics so what I know that I have is a key turn positive on switch and a couple of wire that used to go to the coil but I don't identify them as having current or ground. So I would like to know what do you mean by "30 on the Motronic power supply"
2.- - Vanagon ignition switch 15 positive to Mk3 ignition coil black 2.5 wire (track 31) and ECU 38 black 0.5 wire. (track 34) Ok I get it that is the following track from page 97-148 from the Bentley in my case that is a 95
The question would be: track 31 goes to the ignition distributor as in the picture above shows but I cant find no coil on that track... and if I use logic no engine harness goes to distributor however above the ignition distributor in the bentley it does shows the coil. Theres black wires going to the coil are does the ones that you are refering to?
And I cant find (track 34) its blank in my bentley (ECU 38 black 0.5 wire.)
3.- - OEM Mk3 3 Connector Power Supply relay and diagram: using diagram on that relay, though not shown, 30 connects internally to one side of relay switch coil (Bentley diagram and my understanding of how the Power Supply relay works). So, Vanagon B+ to relay 30, relay 85 to ECU 9, relay 87 to red/blue wire supplying positive to E7 junction ("plus connection.... motronic harness"). E7 supplies positive to fuel injectors, ECU 23 etc. Follow ECU 23 wire to E7 and/or trace for continuity between ECU 23 and power supply relay 87
So batery + to relay 30
relay 85 to ECU wire 9
relay 87 to red blue wire E7 junction I have it identified but whats "plus conection motronic harness
Whats ECU 23? Isnt it the wire that goes to the junction to the inyectors and evap canister? Thats what the A2 resource diagram indicates
4.-[/img]Mk3 fuel pump relay: Vanagon B+ to 30, fused 87 to fuel pump, ECU 6 to fuel pump relay 85, fuel pump relay 86 to B+ (again, positive to 86 appears to be wired inside the OEM fuel pump relay)
ok Batery + to 30 relay
Fused 87 to fuel pump
ECU wire #6 to relay 85 pin
Relay 86 to B+ ok but I have a Question --->what B+ batery + or ignition +? because as soon as I turn the key on to acc the fuel pump doesnt turn off it just keeps going and going so that means no radio in camping area
5.- HO2S HO2S relay 2 (30 on generic relay), gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 (via a fuse).
Relay pin 4 (85 on generic relay) gets negative from ECU.
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay.
Relay 8 (87 on generic relay), connects to O2 heater. The other side of heater goes to ground.
Do you have the original HO2S relay socket? It has pin numbers that coincide with the wiring diagram. I posted a diagram for that in this forum, somewhere.
No, I dont have the original relay socket...
HO2S relay 2 I dont know whats relay 2 however I have 30 on generic relay so it gets positive from the fuel pump relay 87 via a fuse thats easy money got it
Relay pin 4 I dont have relay pin 4 only 85 on generic relay, gets negative from ECU. ---> Do you remember what ECU cable is negative? theres several... is there one designated for the HO2S ? Or should I just grab what ever ground wire from ECU?
Positive from E7 junction in harness (blue/red wires) goes to HO2S relay 6 which is 86 on a generic relay. ---> I dont have relay 6 only 86 on a generic relay. Thats easy money
Relay 8 I dont have relay 8 what I have is 87 on generic relay. Connects to O2 heater---> Where is this? Is it the oxigen sensor going to the mufler or am I really confused?. The other side of heater goes to ground ---> I gues same question here what do you mean by heater.
By the moment those are all the questions that I have let me know your bank account to deposit a 6 pack of beer! |
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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I hope this helps:
turning key to ignition on (dash lights on) position causes:
- positive flow to ignition coil and ECU (tracks 31 and 34)
- ECU to connect ground to power supply relay
- power supply relay to allow positive flow to fuel injectors etc.
As starter motor turns engine, ECU causes fuel pump relay to close.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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rogertj
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
I hope this helps:
turning key to ignition on (dash lights on) position causes:
- positive flow to ignition coil and ECU (tracks 31 and 34)
- ECU to connect ground to power supply relay
- power supply relay to allow positive flow to fuel injectors etc.
As starter motor turns engine, ECU causes fuel pump relay to close.
Neil. |
Neil I get confused when you specify tracks 31 and 34... im on page 97-148 of the Bentley on the 1995 and tracks 34,35,36 are in blank, nada, zip. They are with no data
Are this numbers that I showed you previously that by the way 34 does not have anything on it?
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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khughes
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Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| rogertj wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
I hope this helps:
turning key to ignition on (dash lights on) position causes:
- positive flow to ignition coil and ECU (tracks 31 and 34)
- ECU to connect ground to power supply relay
- power supply relay to allow positive flow to fuel injectors etc.
As starter motor turns engine, ECU causes fuel pump relay to close.
Neil. |
Neil I get confused when you specify tracks 31 and 34... im on page 97-148 of the Bentley on the 1995 and tracks 34,35,36 are in blank, nada, zip. They are with no data
Are this numbers that I showed you previously that by the way 34 does not have anything on it? |
There will only be a "connection" with the bottom Line (ground plane) of the diagram if the "elements" on that track go directly to ground. Look at 34, follow it up, and you'll see that above G40 you have a line to ECU point 44. The track numbers are like map grids so anything on a vertical line from the ground plane at point 34 up to the power lines (X, 30, etc.) is on "Track 34".
Hopefully that helps.
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'86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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Vanagon Nut
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Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| rogertj wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
turning key to ignition on (dash lights on) position causes:
- positive flow to ignition coil and ECU (tracks 31 and 34)
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Neil I get confused when you specify tracks 31 and 34... im on page 97-148 of the Bentley on the 1995 and tracks 34,35,36 are in blank, nada, zip. They are with no data
Are this numbers that I showed you previously that by the way 34 does not have anything on it? |
Hi Roger. There is data on tracks 31 and 34  You'd referred to them earlier so thought you knew how to read that data.
On track 31, starting at the top of the page, the black 2.5 wire connects from 15 to ignition coil and a smaller black wire splits off from that 2.5 wire to ECU 38 which is shown on track 34
When looking at a given track, you have to look ("read") along that track from top to bottom or bottom to top.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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khughes
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Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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This may help you out with the troubleshooting as well. I haven't had Digifant in 20 years, so don't have a lot of direct help I could provide:
http://oldbluesblog.com/files/DigifantProTrainingManual_SingleSided.pdf
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rogertj
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Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Thanks on the tracks now I get it. when you say track 34 its not that you have a ground cable there but you need to go "upstairs" and check out what does it have like Khuges was mentioning G40 you have a line to ECU point 44
ok back to reading again!
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
Samba Member
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Thanks for the manual!
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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rogertj
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| rogertj wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
turning key to ignition on (dash lights on) position causes:
- positive flow to ignition coil and ECU (tracks 31 and 34)
|
Neil I get confused when you specify tracks 31 and 34... im on page 97-148 of the Bentley on the 1995 and tracks 34,35,36 are in blank, nada, zip. They are with no data
Are this numbers that I showed you previously that by the way 34 does not have anything on it? |
Hi Roger. There is data on tracks 31 and 34 You'd referred to them earlier so thought you knew how to read that data.
On track 31, starting at the top of the page, the black 2.5 wire connects from 15 to ignition coil and a smaller black wire splits off from that 2.5 wire to ECU 38 which is shown on track 34
When looking at a given track, you have to look ("read") along that track from top to bottom or bottom to top.
Neil. |
10-4 Neil got it Ill re read everything most posibly I have a bad wire somewhere
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
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Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:30 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Guys good morning !
Fresh start this morning with all the input that you guys gave me, there's 2 wires in the power supply relay that I have already corrected but I have a question on track 48 the power supply relay has 5/86A what would that be in a generic relay? Because the ones that I have have 87 and 87a but no 86a so it's confusing
Because 86a on track 48 is a 0.5 wire brown black wire but in my generic relay 86 is 12 volts switch... so I'm like spinning again
I would really appreciate your help! Or any one that can help.
_________________
Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
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Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| rogertj wrote: |
.... I have a question on track 48 the power supply relay has 5/86A what would that be in a generic relay? Because the ones that I have have 87 and 87a but no 86a so it's confusing
Because 86a on track 48 is a 0.5 wire brown black wire but in my generic relay 86 is 12 volts switch... so I'm like spinning again
|
Knowing if your new relays have 5 pins is an important detail. Please post a picture of the diagram on your relay(s).
Ignore the voltage rating shown on these relays. If your relay diagram shows a resistor across 85/86 like this:
even though the A3 diagram shows "86a" to ECU 9, connect ECU 9 to new relay pin 85. ** My logic behind that is shown below.
On a 5 pin relay, either pin 87, or 87a can connect internally to relay pin 30. So with your new 5 pin "power supply" relay disconnected, volt/ohm meter set to Ohms, if you see (measure) 0.00 Ohms across 30 and 87a, connect relay pin 87 to E7 plus connection in harness.
Neil.
From here:
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html
Terminal numbering convention
The terminal numberings found on a relay body are taken from DIN 72552 which is a German automotive industry standard that has been widely adopted and allocates a numeric code to various types of electrical terminals found in vehicles. The terminals on the outside of a 4 or 5 pin mini relay are marked with numbers as shown below:
Terminal/Pin number
Connection
85 Coil
86 Coil
87 Normally Open (NO)
87a Normally Closed (NC) - not present on 4 pin relays
30 Common connection to NO & NC terminals
According to DIN 72552 the coil should be fed with +12V to terminal 86 and grounded via terminal 85, however in practice it makes no difference which way around they are wired, unless you are using a relay with an integrated diode (see more info on diodes below).
** IMO, from the point of view of a shop, mechanic, electrical specialist diagnosing the ABA electrical system in a Vanagon, I'd think that using relay pin 85 is the right choice. From the A3 manual re: checking the power supply relay etc.:
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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rogertj
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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I already checked that and it seems its going to be the ECM al wires have continuity, relay is working properly and no go. Im going to have to call the dealership to see what ECM does this car runs on theres several numbers need a match
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:43 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| rogertj wrote: |
| I already checked that and it seems its going to be the ECM al wires have continuity, relay is working properly and no go. Im going to have to call the dealership to see what ECM does this car runs on theres several numbers need a match |
try an internet search. I entered the VW part number 037 906 258 AE of an ECU of mine here:
https://www.atcdrivetrain.co.uk/search/results.htm...mit=Search
If you do same, and result shows "Motronic 2.9" it's an OBD1 ECU.
Neil.
One of my known good OBD1 ECU's. edit: you'll notice that the date on it indicates year 1996 but it works in my OBD1 ABA conversion.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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rogertj
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| rogertj wrote: |
| I already checked that and it seems its going to be the ECM al wires have continuity, relay is working properly and no go. Im going to have to call the dealership to see what ECM does this car runs on theres several numbers need a match |
try an internet search. I entered the VW part number 037 906 258 AE of an ECU of mine here:
https://www.atcdrivetrain.co.uk/search/results.htm...mit=Search
If you do same, and result shows "Motronic 2.9" it's an OBD1 ECU.
Neil.
One of my known good OBD1 ECU's. edit: you'll notice that the date on it indicates year 1996 but it works in my OBD1 ABA conversion.
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I Will do also on 7ZAP.com by the way Question on the computer, on 7zap it appears two for 1995 ABA's, one for the USA and the other for California because I didn't save the donor car VIN number I couldn't ask the dealership about what ECM I needed to buy... By any chance do you know if it would affect either? Or if both works should I go for either?
I think it's a bad ECU because I bought it from a junkyard and the guy had them all stacked up in a motor home that was filled with dirt and most possibly rained on it. Heck Maybe I burned it on a bad connection because previous to your help I had several cables or the relays in a bad position so no I'm of to get a computer
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:22 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Block rebuild thread thinking in turbo=) |
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Just to keep you guys informed of all the questions because I know there will be for some folks that read this, this a question that Vanagon nut answered me:
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Nut one question where should this cabe go? Its the pin relay 86 on generic relay of the power supply relay
Should it go to ignition switch? I have that slight doubt I dont see an 86 on the A2 resource nor in the Bentley check it out |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| rogertj wrote: |
Nut one question where should this cabe go? Its the pin relay 86 on generic relay of the power supply relay
Should it go to ignition switch? |
No.
ECU 9 connects to generic relay 85, B+ connects to generic relay pin 86. I think I posted that info in your main thread.
When key is turned to ignition on, it turns on part of the ECU. This causes the ECU to send ground to the power supply relay. This causes that relay to turn on.
A 4 or 5 pin relay can be controlled by a switch on the negative or positive side of its' coil circuit (85 and 86).
It's important to understand that the ECU controls (switches) most (maybe all) components connected to it on the negative side of their circuit. e.g. fuel injectors.
Neil. |
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I dont remember if we touched the topic of generic pin 86 in my thread but I did tried that and did not worked either. Its going to be the ECU because it doesnt even sounds click click click, its not making ground and all the wires are ok I have checked for continuity all the way to the ECU conector.
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Hope it works for some one in the future
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
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rogertj
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:11 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA swap going turbo |
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Ok guys so more than a month has gone by and I have not updated the thread because of various reasons!
In the meantime I did some some work in the car here are the picks. Thank you Ben for your page hope it does not die never!
Painted my Dashboard and looks pretty!
Installed a oil presure gauge from glowshift
One of them was because of 4 bad starters  , yes, 4 starters, if you ever buy rebuilt bosch starters from Autozone in Mexico beware of them because they are junk maybe in North America is common for a good starter but let me tell you my experience: I even bought one bosch remanufactured one in Autozone Chula Vista California USA when they reopened the border and it came rusted from the inside. I was like what? Really? Anyways it can happen to anyone.
I bought my 5th one here at Autozone on the Mexican side with a different part number and with a better design (you can see that is a smaller and more efficient design) (for Manual Transmission) and it worked like a charm. Heck, it even sounded like a brand new car. Check it out in your neighborhood maybe it is available over there. The part number is DL17066N from Autozone MX. In the USA is listed as "Duralast Gold Starter 17066N" I recommend it. $166 bucks
Once that got fixed, Another problem araised (well actually I already had it), I had either the harness, ECU or some component bad that is not making the engine fire up.
I have tried everything, I checked almost all components if not all according to Bentley's manual, and nothing. Checked a lot of components and all the results came out fine according to Bentley. Ohms, etc.
I was texting dkoesyncro as I tested some wires but nothing.
I posted in this forum another thread that I offered money for help on zoom call but nobody wanted to help via zoom. I don't know why but hey what doesn't kill you it makes you stronger.
I wonder what cables or sensors are indispensable so that the MK3 obd1 can run? Mine is a 95 Jetta OBD1
I have tried better grounds, 5 ECU's, yes 5 ECU's. and nothing. It does not fire right up.
My fuel injectors have now have pulse in the negative side so im checking if they are skirting gas (with the fire department with me by my side)
Today I'm rechecking everything starting with the engine sensors and after that with the harness. I even tried timing and everything is perfect there.
What popped in an Engine Management System book that I was reading on the Motronic 2.9 is that the only sensor that if faulty does not fire the engine was the crankshaft sensor (RPM sensor per Bentley) but I remember that I did that but oh well I'm redoing everything again.
Other than that if all the components are I either send it with a specialist (if I can find one here) or I will continue to chase my tail!
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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rogertj
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2008
Posts: 505
Location: Tijuana, Baja California. Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:59 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA swap going turbo |
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Just finished testing Power Supply Relay and fuel pump relay by the 10th time and all is well.
What I found is that the Crankshaft position sensor is bellow it normal operating rating in ohms. The Bentley shows 500-700 ohms and mine was at 471 ohms so changing that on the 14th. Until then my friends!
Thank you Samba for your continues help!
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Roger
Had a Carbureted ABA after engoing the heck out of it now going for ABA 2.0 Jetta EFI ill put a garrett in to the tin can later or maybe go electric?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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