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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:39 pm Post subject: Progress! |
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Well, I feel like I had a good start with the right (passenger) rear fender area.
Remembering I started with this:
As requested I tried it with the fender as close as I could do it..:
Yeah, not pretty. Clearly I needed some serious alterations....
So I made some relief cuts... com ça (it's French)
...and came up with this, after much hammerin' and dollyin' a little push here, a little weld there.. you get the drill.
Which allowed a much better fit, I think... I didn't put all the bolts in, didn't crank 'em very tight, and no fender bead either, but I think, well, voila:
Now: It ain't perfect, it ain't factory, and yes, it will probably require MUCH more tweakin' and working before it's done, but I feel it's a lot closed than when I started......
I will need to do more fill-in welds, more grinding, more pushin'/tuggin', and probably some filling. I wonder if lead might be an option? I'm not proud, certainly some filler would probably work too..... _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728089&highlight= |
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MACJELLY58 Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2014 Posts: 400 Location: HONOLULU, HAWAII
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:26 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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Great progress!! I know the feeling of thinking a repair went well, then getting the surprise of something gone horribly wrong.
Kudos on not going off the deep end and instead, working the problem. It now looks like it's almost there and you can have your satisfaction of a successful repair. I can't wait to see the end result!! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:40 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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Be proud my friend. Many on here are scared to death of body work, let alone cutting and pasting steel. Those that manipulate steel are critical but get it. It looks like a great start. You have a ways to go. What I would guess happened is two fold. You welded way to much and cooled it down way to infrequently. Two, the profile of the side was not templated, so that you could measure up where you needed to hammer the metal during the welding process.
So, after tacking a patch in, I go through and adjust it with a hammer and dolly. It needs to be exactly where it needs to be finished at. If the steel does not want to get to that point. I cut the tack, then hammer and tack again. Eventually everything becomes mismo!
After that it is all about welding and cooling. It is a battle and one I loose often. I am always trying to get, “just one more” in. After years of this thinking, I have finally changed! I now will tack several spots. Cool it all down. Hammer on it a little. Maybe even grind a little. Then get my fan blowing on it. Once cool to the touch, the second round happens, same process, and again, and again.
Keep the panel cool. If it gets too hot, it will stretch and allow the molecules to roam freely, thus reshaping the panel with no stress. You want to retain the stress of the shape, so you cannot allow the panel to stretch and realign. Get it?
Good! Go back out there and cut a few tacks, hammer away till satisfied and retack with an eye on the panel temps! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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So, I went out and made a template of just the top of the rear quarter panel at the B Pillar, just for you!
I would suggest you template the entire side at the B Pillar and then move backwards from there. But what I am going to show you will come in handy more often than you can even begin to understand right now!
This process comes from 4 decades of creating round wooden cabinets and countertops, at the wholesale level. I owned a cabinet shop in the 90s that shipped high end custom cabinetry to the high end retail market place in the San Francisco area, mainly Sausalito. These methods may not be how a true metal craft person makes it happen, but it works, and very well. I am sure there are other approaches. I am always a fan of having more knowledge, so if you know something I do not, please enlighten me. My mind is open!
I searched around for a segment of 2 x 2 Aluminum L channel. I was unable to find one - damn it. Aluminum is way easier to cut and quicker too! But I did find a scrap piece of 2 x 2 L channel in Steel. Took me a few hours but here you go!
Step 1. Figure out what you need to do. I held the channel up to the car and determined that I would need to do two seperate pieces of the curves, to create the full template, in the 2 x 2 channel. If I had a 2 x 6 channel, then maybe I could get the whole thing completed, but I do not have it laying around. So, 2 x 2 it is. And lets just concentrate on the upper portion. It has the curve, the body line and the roof line in it, so it would be the more difficult to produce.
The 2x2 scrap I have laying around. You can see that it is a good 4 inches from the top and the bottom. If I was to create the entire curve, I would just make two seperate portions of the panel line and weld them together.
Going to make this one past the body line. Here is me marking the steel channel.
Me cutting the steel channel.
The first disk caught on the cut and exploded. THIS IS WHY YOU NEED SAFETY GLASSES! I would be out an eye today doing this routine task, if not for my safety glasses. Check out the disk. Or what is left of it!
Put the second disc on there and finished up the cut. Took the cut off over to the Bug and with the help of 2 magnets, set it into position.
After tapping it into a perfect spot. That being the entire lenght is covered by the body. I took a sharp Sharpie marker and drew the outline onto the channel.
Be sure to get into the line really well!
And here it is, ready to be cut!
I use my 14" bandsaw. Again, I am a woodworker by trade, but the tools can cross over, easily. It is the cleaning that sucks!
First curve cut!
Second curve cut.
I know what you are thinking. "Jimbo, I do not own a bandsaw." I have an answer for you. You can cut the same cuts with a cheap jigsaw. Just be aware of the heat being generated at the blade. The hotter the blade gets, the less life it keeps. I ran compressed air on the cut the entire time.
After the cutting, I smoothed the cut out with a grinding disc, then place it against the car. Perfect on the first attempt. That NEVER happens.
That how you make a template. So, get a piece of aluminum and copy the other side for a reference. Then transfer that profile over using the template. Pound, grind and cut as needed to make that profile happen.
Good luck man! Hope that helps you out, now and in the future! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: "a template a template, my Kingdom for a template!" |
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VW_Jimbo:
Many thanks again. I too, have used the "weld and cool" method with the compressed air. Perfect? Not hardly, but it does indeed help with minimizing warpage.
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to show how to make that template! I know there are several things that came together to make that available to me and I really do appreciate it.
It's like having a "big brother" or a "mentor", and I don't don't get slapped in the head if I screw up! heheh J/K, but I do acknowledge and appreciate it Jimbo. you da' man...
Excellent EXCELLENT description of a template and how it's made. I can see where that would give me a great reference for the front portion of the quarter panel. It's nice to use that "B" post as a place to "fix" the angle iron; not quite sure how I am gonna do it in the middle and back area of the panel....
Wondering out loud if there is anything like this for such a task? Heheh I guess ideally it would be like 3 feet long...
As stated, I feel that I'm close, but the area needs a bit of "convincing" still..
Stand bye; as stated recently, I have one more task to complete then my "shop time" will hopefully increase.
Thanks Again Jimbo , and others as well. _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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To make a template further past the B pillar, just draw a line up the side. So from the B pillar mark a line 12 inches past it at the top and bottom. Then connect those dots or use a board that is 12”. (If you need a visual, let me know). Then create the template for that line. EZ! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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VW_Jimbo wrote: |
To make a template further past the B pillar, just draw a line up the side. So from the B pillar mark a line 12 inches past it at the top and bottom. Then connect those dots or use a board that is 12”. (If you need a visual, let me know). Then create the template for that line. EZ! |
OK I'm not seeing it.
Can I see a visual? A picture is fine.... _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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MACJELLY58 Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2014 Posts: 400 Location: HONOLULU, HAWAII
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Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:08 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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BAXSIE just made his own sliding template "Thingy". Just like Jimbo...some amazing problem solvers on this site!!
baxsie wrote: |
Finally back to looking at the car. I had the body guy over, and he kept pointing out that the driver side front quarter was way off from where it should be. This is the type of thing that he can tell right away just by looking at it. I do not have all that experience, so we decided to build a gauge from the apparently undamaged passenger side panel:
Looking at it along the ends of the bamboo skewers shows the nice curve:
Now we need to use that guide on the driver's side to pull the panel into position and shape. |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:30 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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MACJELLY58 wrote: |
BAXSIE just made his own sliding template "Thingy". Just like Jimbo...some amazing problem solvers on this site!!
Now we need to use that guide on the driver's side to pull the panel into position and shape.
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Wow! Perfect. Thanks everybody! _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:26 pm Post subject: Progress, albeit "more fiddley bits"; but progress |
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Too cold for any kind of body fillers (yes I am not afraid to say I will need a bit), but I had some time today, so it was time to take care of the fender nuts.
Many of my fender nuts also required significant patches in the body, so it wasn't just a "plug and play". I have tried the method where you cut out a patch, fit it, then cut a hole in the patch, weld the nut to the patch, then weld in the patch. Ugh. Too much work.
This time, I welded in the patch first, THEN drilled and set something called rivet nuts. Much faster. A guy uses this method for securing the rivet nuts, and so did I.
Link
I used M8 stainless steel rivet nuts, and tack welded 'em in. I chased the threads to ensure a good fit from the fender bolts.
First the hole; Patch is in, don't have to worry about exact location of hole, fender is fitted and used for hole location. Bada bing. That's a 7/16th (or 11mm); I started with an 1/8th pilot hole.
Insert and set nut as per instructions from YouTube, It is actually pretty easy to do, even with the stainless steel ones. I used standard wrenches, nothing fancy.
Tack weld 'er in, and grind off excess. Voila.
Repeat ad lib (as needed)
Admire fender nuts. (And ignore amazing lack of body work to complete quarter panel. Coming.... )
Gosh I've spent a TON of time in this right rear area... Look at all those little bitty patches I've done.....It looks like Frankenstein's monster....It's beautiful....
_________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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Those riv nuts are pretty cool, first time I've seen those. I used these - https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VHD%2DN114071%2DSET - they were actually pretty easy to put in place once I figured out the welding bit.... _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: Change of scenery.. finally! |
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Hehehe yes, I busted out of that right rear quadrant, it was needed to get that change.
I'm not near finished, but it was good to see something else for a change..
Here 'tis...yes folks the FRONT right side. That low last fender nut (or lack there off) has been there, buggin' me and has needed some attention. Retrospectively, that one right above it will need some love too.. Argh. Does it ever stop?
BTW, can anyone point me to good, clear picture of what that corner looks like in a "pristine" (read no rust) super beetle??
So, mark and remove...Save as much good metal as possible.
Here's the piece I removed. "Soi-gery" yuck yuck....
And here's its replacement... Not exactly Jeremy_G or Fitzee's standards, but, as I have said, adequate...'tis a tad longer than its replacement, I'll trim to fit after I put 'er in.
.
I spent the large part of four hours getting to that point. Didn't have time to install, just ran out of time, but did clean it and POR-15'ed. Hopefully, this w/e, will trim, fit, weld then put in the fender nut (the new style).
Progress. _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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Lost69Convertible Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2020 Posts: 447 Location: Rhode Island
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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Here's some '79 Super convertible pictures in the front right quarter area with the fender on. I hope they can help you:
The dreaded undercoat is thick but a line of spot welds is visible. I scraped a rusty area and covered it with wheel bearing grease. The reinforcement beam is also showing, you don't have that:
To the rear of the fender:
_________________ 1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Lost69Convertible wrote: |
Here's some '79 Super convertible pictures in the front right quarter area with the fender on. I hope they can help you: |
Thanks! it helps.
Keep 'em coming folks! _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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finefettle Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006 Posts: 699 Location: Shelburne,Vermont
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Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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Riv nuts are great. You probably don’t need to weld but doesn’t hurt.
Keep up the good work! _________________ 1979 Bug project |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:02 am Post subject: |
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finefettle wrote: |
Riv nuts are great. You probably don’t need to weld but doesn’t hurt.
Keep up the good work! |
Thanks!
Yeah, I just can't let the darn things even THINK about spinning after I put 'em in.... _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: Borrowed these great shots from Jeremy_G |
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So I found what I was looking for; this is a posting from Jeremy_G's project. One of my favorites; this guy knows how to fabricate! I WISH I had his skills....
The little corner part in the right front wheel well
..and the wheel well repair, they all seem to rust right where don't they? I guess it's just a matter of how high the rust goes.. Mine goes a few inches higher then this one..
Thanks again Jeremy. _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9966 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:30 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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You can purchase the Klokermann panel for that repair area. But you will need to invest some time into it to make it right and fit properly. Regardless, it is a great starting point!
https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=TAB%2D400%2D142 _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Chinaclipper Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2019 Posts: 637 Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:31 am Post subject: Re: China Clipper's Official 1971 Super Beetle Project page! |
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Roger that VW_Jimbo. In true fashion, I am gonna see if I can make it work without the Klokermann panel. I have used a few of theirs, and well, you know.... _________________ China Clippers Official 1971 Super Beetle Project!
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