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blackdog1999 
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
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 Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:21 am Post subject: Paypal / Online Payment systems |
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I did a quick search & did not see a direct good thread about Paypal so I thought I would start one. Mainly this is because Paypal has recently been doing some real screwy things. Now I know they have always had some controversial practices but lately these new rules just seem to be the signs of a company in real business trouble or being run by someone that is not focused on customer service.
Here are a couple of things that have recently effected me directly.
1. As of 11/2/2019 on all business accounts Paypal will no longer refund the fees collected on all transactions. This may not seem like a big deal but in forums like here on the Samba where it is an open platform to post & sell items this causes a real problem.
I regularly answer emails from potential buyers that ask me about an item & its total price shipped to them. I answer their questions & give them a total shipped price. Some people decide to buy or pass right away. Many other people take time to decide or to just collect up the funds to send over & complete the purchase. Where this creates a problem is when a second buyer contacts me & completes the purchase before the other potential buyer finally gets around to completing their purchase of the item.
Now a $1-2 fee sale is no big deal but a lot of us here in the real world are having transactions with fees that are much higher then that.
My point to this is that Paypal needs to hear from everyone that this practice is not acceptable. Not just the business accounts will be effected by this as the individual who sends the funds may only get a partial refund from the seller.
2. Holds on payments into person accounts.
Paypal is now doing this on what they say is a random transaction basis. This practice is not just for accounts that have had negative activity. You can have a perfect record for years & Paypal currently does not care. They have a list of reasons as to what may prompt this to occur. They tell you that the funds will be released to you within 24 hours of the buyer receiving the item. This is not true. 48 hours is the fastest they will release the funds after the buyer receives the item. The real fact is that Paypal contract now says that Paypal can hold the funds for up to 90 days after the buyer has received the item if they want too. The only way around this is for the seller to contact the buyer after receipt of the item & ask the buyer to log back into their account & click a box acknowledging receipt of the item. Paypal does not care that UPS, Fedex, or USPS has signature proof of delivery anymore in this case.
A real world situation about this practice that is food for thought. If you sell a vehicle or anything expensive, imagine if Paypal says that they will not release those $5,000-$30,000 in funds for 90 days because this sale is a "significant risk". On top of that Paypal tells you that the funds are still in your account even though you can not access them & they are not paying you interest on those funds. All of this is in your contract as of this year, 2019.
I can not be the only person having these issues. These policies apply to everyone with a Paypal account.
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| paypal & ebay split a few years ago..ebay started ebaypay....many sellers do not take pay pal any longer and it has hurt them and who ever wants to buy with paypal...I reckon they were not alowed to have both? or they were baned from pay pal and ebay saw a new scam to put on us buyers.... many now again have pay pal on flebay....if there is a way to get more $$ out of buyers and or sellers they will do it..flebay has lost oh somany sellers due to the crap and all the fees they have now. witch remended me of the old will smith&dj jazzy jeff song...parrens just dont understand,,,, ebay just dont understand and is hurting it's self. some sellers are selling the items and then you contact them and srange the shipping so ebay dosent charge the added value fees to shipping....witch also saves the buyer some $$. like the shipping on my new glass top for my car I got off flebay...the shipping is almost as much as the top (.3/4 as much) possiably would of been the same if I paid the shipping on flebay. every little bit counts for buyers and sellers. |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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I saw #1 was coming. It was delayed for a while after some uproar but they put it in place anyway.
I haven't seen it happen yet though.
I've done a couple refunds this week and the entire amount was refunded to the buyer.
It may be different in my case as these were purchases made on the website via a link, not a "Send Money" transaction through Paypal.com
It may be different if I have to do a "regular" refund.
On #2 I never take Paypal for anything really expensive.
I tell people to wire me the money.
I'll pay that incoming wire fee, it's less cost than Paypal and zero risk for me.
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12850
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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PayPal, like a credit card processor, is trying to hold funds as long as possible in order to glean interest off of those funds. This may not seem like much, but when millions of dollars are tied up over an extra day or more, every day, this becomes real revenue.
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| blackdog1999 wrote: |
I did a quick search & did not see a direct good thread about Paypal so I thought I would start one. Mainly this is because Paypal has recently been doing some real screwy things. Now I know they have always had some controversial practices but lately these new rules just seem to be the signs of a company in real business trouble or being run by someone that is not focused on customer service.
Here are a couple of things that have recently effected me directly.
1. As of 11/2/2019 on all business accounts Paypal will no longer refund the fees collected on all transactions. This may not seem like a big deal but in forums like here on the Samba where it is an open platform to post & sell items this causes a real problem.
I regularly answer emails from potential buyers that ask me about an item & its total price shipped to them. I answer their questions & give them a total shipped price. Some people decide to buy or pass right away. Many other people take time to decide or to just collect up the funds to send over & complete the purchase. Where this creates a problem is when a second buyer contacts me & completes the purchase before the other potential buyer finally gets around to completing their purchase of the item.
Now a $1-2 fee sale is no big deal but a lot of us here in the real world are having transactions with fees that are much higher then that.
My point to this is that Paypal needs to hear from everyone that this practice is not acceptable. Not just the business accounts will be effected by this as the individual who sends the funds may only get a partial refund from the seller.
2. Holds on payments into person accounts.
Paypal is now doing this on what they say is a random transaction basis. This practice is not just for accounts that have had negative activity. You can have a perfect record for years & Paypal currently does not care. They have a list of reasons as to what may prompt this to occur. They tell you that the funds will be released to you within 24 hours of the buyer receiving the item. This is not true. 48 hours is the fastest they will release the funds after the buyer receives the item. The real fact is that Paypal contract now says that Paypal can hold the funds for up to 90 days after the buyer has received the item if they want too. The only way around this is for the seller to contact the buyer after receipt of the item & ask the buyer to log back into their account & click a box acknowledging receipt of the item. Paypal does not care that UPS, Fedex, or USPS has signature proof of delivery anymore in this case.
A real world situation about this practice that is food for thought. If you sell a vehicle or anything expensive, imagine if Paypal says that they will not release those $5,000-$30,000 in funds for 90 days because this sale is a "significant risk". On top of that Paypal tells you that the funds are still in your account even though you can not access them & they are not paying you interest on those funds. All of this is in your contract as of this year, 2019.
I can not be the only person having these issues. These policies apply to everyone with a Paypal account. |
The best advice I received from someone (here) regarding Paypal for sellers is to send invoices. It's the best way to track orders without relying emailing back and forth with the buyer. It's easy to set up a template where you can include a link to your Samba feedback thread. Buyers will receive automatic notification if an invoice hasn't been paid.
If the buyer doesn't respond within a time period laid out on the invoice to pay, the seller can cancel the invoice. This helps weed out the tire kickers and time wasters as they've had ample opportunity to act.
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APPLEGREENVW
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 2387
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
Some sellers are against sending someone a paypal invoice, for some reason.  I have startered leaving feedback on the ones who don't. |
Meaning negative feedback because they wouldn't send you an invoice?
Dude, that's crazy
Maybe they don't know how or don't want to spend the time.
If someone posted that in my feedback I would tell them never to contact me again to buy anything.
I will send an invoice if someone asks but if you didn't do it immediately upon inquiring, you are wasting time by asking.
You could have paid me in the time spent emailing me back to ask for an invoice then me having to go and do an invoice.
_________________
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Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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APPLEGREENVW
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 2387
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
| Some sellers are against sending someone a paypal invoice, for some reason. I have startered leaving feedback on the ones who don't. |
Meaning negative feedback because they wouldn't send you an invoice?
Dude, that's crazy
Maybe they don't know how or don't want to spend the time.
If someone posted that in my feedback I would tell them never to contact me again to buy anything.
I will send an invoice if someone asks but if you didn't do it immediately upon inquiring, you are wasting time by asking.
You could have paid me in the time spent emailing me back to ask for an invoice then me having to go and do an invoice. |
What's so negative about giving a heads up to the next buyer, about the seller doesn't want to send a invoice, if asked to?
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
| Some sellers are against sending someone a paypal invoice, for some reason. I have startered leaving feedback on the ones who don't. |
Meaning negative feedback because they wouldn't send you an invoice?
Dude, that's crazy
Maybe they don't know how or don't want to spend the time.
If someone posted that in my feedback I would tell them never to contact me again to buy anything.
I will send an invoice if someone asks but if you didn't do it immediately upon inquiring, you are wasting time by asking.
You could have paid me in the time spent emailing me back to ask for an invoice then me having to go and do an invoice. |
I have sold quite a bit of stuff here-----everything from a postcard to a car---and I have been asked for an invoice exactly TWO times. This is not a business----just an old man having a yard sale clearing out forgotten and no longer needed things. In both of those cases it was because the buyer had no idea how to do a straight forward PayPal directly to my account. (but the deals were done anyway). |
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APPLEGREENVW
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 2387
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76909
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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I deal with a number of restoration shops and some need a invoice for their bookkeeping.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
| Some sellers are against sending someone a paypal invoice, for some reason. I have startered leaving feedback on the ones who don't. |
Meaning negative feedback because they wouldn't send you an invoice?
Dude, that's crazy
Maybe they don't know how or don't want to spend the time.
If someone posted that in my feedback I would tell them never to contact me again to buy anything.
I will send an invoice if someone asks but if you didn't do it immediately upon inquiring, you are wasting time by asking.
You could have paid me in the time spent emailing me back to ask for an invoice then me having to go and do an invoice. |
I have sold quite a bit of stuff here-----everything from a postcard to a car---and I have been asked for an invoice exactly TWO times. This is not a business----just an old man having a yard sale clearing out forgotten and no longer needed things. In both of those cases it was because the buyer had no idea how to do a straight forward PayPal directly to my account. (but the deals were done anyway). |
This is valid - If someone told me they didn't know how to use Paypal for direct payments and wanted an invoice - Ok, I'll send it, I want my money.
I would still think they should have figured it out though. 
I wouldn't post that in their feedback either.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Last edited by EverettB on Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69809
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| APPLEGREENVW wrote: |
| Some sellers are against sending someone a paypal invoice, for some reason. I have startered leaving feedback on the ones who don't. |
Meaning negative feedback because they wouldn't send you an invoice?
Dude, that's crazy
Maybe they don't know how or don't want to spend the time.
If someone posted that in my feedback I would tell them never to contact me again to buy anything.
I will send an invoice if someone asks but if you didn't do it immediately upon inquiring, you are wasting time by asking.
You could have paid me in the time spent emailing me back to ask for an invoice then me having to go and do an invoice. |
What's so negative about giving a heads up to the next buyer, about the seller doesn't want to send a invoice, if asked to? |
Some things are not worth mentioning or complaining about and I would consider that one of those things.
| Glenn wrote: |
| I deal with a number of restoration shops and some need a invoice for their bookkeeping. |
True. I consider that a different thing and they typically want an actual invoice, not a Paypal one.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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blackdog1999
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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I am happy to send invoices to anyone if I am not traveling. On my laptop it takes just 1-2 minutes. To send everyone who contacts me an invoice & then try to manage those invoices would be unrealistic in my case. I respond to about 30 people per day. That is realistically over 300 invoices per month I would have open at any given moment I would need to manage.
I am only one person and already have a hard time managing my 2700 adds.
My request to Paypal was to offer the same thing my personal account has. I have to accept the payment before it is completely in my account. If I deny the payment then it never really left the senders account.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76909
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| blackdog1999 wrote: |
| I am only one person and already have a hard time managing my 2700 adds. |
Time to hire an accounts receivable person. 
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| blackdog1999 wrote: |
I am happy to send invoices to anyone if I am not traveling. On my laptop it takes just 1-2 minutes. To send everyone who contacts me an invoice & then try to manage those invoices would be unrealistic in my case. I respond to about 30 people per day. That is realistically over 300 invoices per month I would have open at any given moment I would need to manage.
I am only one person and already have a hard time managing my 2700 adds.
My request to Paypal was to offer the same thing my personal account has. I have to accept the payment before it is completely in my account. If I deny the payment then it never really left the senders account. |
One advantage to using invoices is the ability to generate shipping labels which are linked to the transaction. Right now, it appears you are manually requesting money from buyers, packing, hauling goods to the Post Office (and hopefully getting a tracking number) or FedEx, and then manually sending a tracking number to the buyer. That's a lot of time wasted with manual and inefficient processes. Using invoices which are automatically linked to a USPS generated shipping label saves you from the unscrupulous person who will file a Paypal dispute by claiming the goods were never received. Tracking numbers from FedEx, UPS, and others can be logged to the invoice as well and are automatically sent to the buyer.
I've seen your feedback thread and can see you've had a lot of instances where you had to send the buyer a tracking number. Again, you're spending too much time on manual, inefficient tasks and need to work smarter.
As Glenn pointed out, with the number of items you're managing, it looks like you need someone to manage the administrative tasks.
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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The paypal changes plays right into FB and their payment options. FB is aggressive in capturing peer to peer business.
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blackdog1999
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2004
Posts: 1203
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
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| Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| Gary wrote: |
| blackdog1999 wrote: |
I am happy to send invoices to anyone if I am not traveling. On my laptop it takes just 1-2 minutes. To send everyone who contacts me an invoice & then try to manage those invoices would be unrealistic in my case. I respond to about 30 people per day. That is realistically over 300 invoices per month I would have open at any given moment I would need to manage.
I am only one person and already have a hard time managing my 2700 adds.
My request to Paypal was to offer the same thing my personal account has. I have to accept the payment before it is completely in my account. If I deny the payment then it never really left the senders account. |
One advantage to using invoices is the ability to generate shipping labels which are linked to the transaction. Right now, it appears you are manually requesting money from buyers, packing, hauling goods to the Post Office (and hopefully getting a tracking number) or FedEx, and then manually sending a tracking number to the buyer. That's a lot of time wasted with manual and inefficient processes. Using invoices which are automatically linked to a USPS generated shipping label saves you from the unscrupulous person who will file a Paypal dispute by claiming the goods were never received. Tracking numbers from FedEx, UPS, and others can be logged to the invoice as well and are automatically sent to the buyer.
I've seen your feedback thread and can see you've had a lot of instances where you had to send the buyer a tracking number. Again, you're spending too much time on manual, inefficient tasks and need to work smarter.
As Glenn pointed out, with the number of items you're managing, it looks like you need someone to manage the administrative tasks. |
Hiring someone is not an option. There is not enough profit in this business for an employee.
As for the other, not wanting to get too deep into my business, I have very aggressive Fedex account pricing so most of my shipments go out that way. Only a small amount go out USPS. I have found that if I try to use a non direct entry into Fedex.com the pricing discounts are not the same. I just went through this with the www.DeutschPolster.com website. That is set-up to be able to do direct print & ship labeling.
Either way that is off topic of the thread. Thank you guys for the suggestions but the point of this thread is to discuss issues with Paypal & how to address them.
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gereonb
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2016
Posts: 149
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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Been using paypal since it was created, never had an issue that couldn't be resolved.
I absolutely *love* the invoicing function as it ties everything together and avoids human error on both sides.
I will send money to folks I trust using f&f and sometimes I will take a risk and send f&f to people on our first transaction.
Other times I am happy to use the "paying for products" options and just add some cash to cover the extra fees.
Nobody I have sold to (sales of 1/4mill over 10 years) has ever not paid or have never had money withheld beyond normal times.
I guess you have to set your expectations accordingly and also use the tools the way they were designed, that's all I can say. |
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Loren
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2004
Posts: 1700
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Anything About Paypal |
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| Looks like PayPal has to report any sales over $600 to the IRS. Wonder how this will effect sellers here on the Samba? |
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