Scrivyscriv's 1967 java green sunroof sedan (stock)

[scrivyscriv]

Cleaning up stuff and getting ready for epoxy!

The shoes are just there for my reference on the parking brake levers, I'm not planning to reuse them.
I found a crack more than halfway around the underside of my steering gearbox cover, which is nice, but the rest of the parts checked out good.. roller shaft end play is in limits and bearings are smooth, worm shaft is acceptable but the wear pattern on the center position could be better. Bearing cages showed faint scoring as indicative of worn bearings, so at a minimum I will need a new set of bearings and seals, and the cast aluminum cover, to reassemble the gearbox.
Reference this thread for a comprehensive look at type 1 gearboxes

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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[Chickensoup]

Epoxy? Your on that next level stuff
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-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

[scrivyscriv]

The parking brake handle was warped a little so I welded a couple areas to stiffen it up. The pivot pin boss is only welded on one side, so I welded the other side to the handle. The handle end was just a stamped seam so I tig welded the seam. I’m not much of a welder and this was my first time fuse welding - no filler rod.

Most of it is in Summit Racing epoxy primer now

_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

I just pulled all the parts off the rack after about a week of setting up.. the urethane hi build primer is just a tie coat for the epoxy to properly bond with the black topcoat I’ll do later. My epoxy primer has a four day window to re spray and if you go past four days, you have to scuff everything prior to spraying. The urethane hi build doesn’t have that window.. I’ll sand it to clean up the overspray and runs, then shoot a thin layer of epoxy primer to seal it, then a layer of single stage black.

Still looking (casually, TBH) for a donor steering box.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

Wolfsburg West was sold out of one pan half earlier this year and I was waiting to order both at the same time, to save on shipping. After the pan half came back in stock August, their shipping charge for both pans over doubled.. so it actually costs less to order and ship separately.
I ordered one side and it looks really good.. seat tracks are already welded to the pan with spot welds. The initial fit is really good.

Since I found a broken cover on my steering box I bought a pair from the classifieds here. Two different styles: Note that one has studs mounted in the casting, the other takes bolts. The early style cap had significant corrosion I found after cleanup so I'll definitely be using the 'newer' style with two non-threaded fill plug holes. I was able to recover a good pair of shims, both worms, and most likely one or both spindles.. reassembly will be mix and match of the best tolerances from the three boxes! I love having donor parts. You should see my stash of Eberspacher BN4s from my bay bus time... way more than I need, but troubleshooting and repair was pretty quick since I didn't have to wait for parts!

This month has been pretty busy for our family, and we're getting ready to welcome baby #5 in November! So even though pans really don't take very long to replace, it's going to take me some time to get it all together.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[Big Bill]

Enjoying your thread, looking for a 64-67 bug locally. I like your order of repair and the way you are cleaning/blasting the parts before painting.

[scrivyscriv]

I've been working towards welding in my floor pans and came across a wealth of good information from the collision industry. My main concern welding in new pans is simple: corrosion. Apparently that's a big concern with vehicle manufacturers too!
The main takeaways I've found so far...
Spot/pinch welds are the most preferred option, with MIG plug welds a last resort. MIG plug welds introduce corrosion hot spots.
You need to apply some sort of protection between the flanges of metal. Either a seam sealer with spot welding, or a weld through primer with MIG.
Cavity wax!!



Link

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1455397O/3m-body-repair-solutions-guide-canada.pdf
https://www.lord.com/latam/sites/brazil/files/SI3293.pdf
https://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/spot-welding-is-a-requirement/
I have no affiliation with any of these links.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[TheRide]

How would you say the replacement seat tracks compare to the originals as far as thickness and strength? traditionally we have seen varying quality in this area.

[Smurf]

[scrivyscriv]

Believe it or not, the Wolfsburg West seat tracks are actually heavier gauge metal than stock! At least, for 1967.
The stamping, construction, and placement appear to be the same as stock.
Stock seat track metal measured out at 1.8mm, which is roughly 14 gauge. The Wolfsburg West track measured approx 2.2mm, or 13 gauge. I haven't put a seat on the tracks yet to see how well it fits.

_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[Smurf]

[scrivyscriv]

It’s taken a long time to get myself situated for these pans! I bought the Harbor Freight 240V spot welder... there are so many mixed reviews on both versions of this welder, but I went ahead and took a chance on it and figured the higher voltage version is more of what I need for the pans. Just like most of their tools it needed to be disassembled, cleaned and adjusted but TBH I didn’t see much that it needed. The tong clamp surface area was rough so I went over both with a scotch brite roloc to shine them up, and a hand rub with a maroon pad on the tongs where they clamp in. The tongs are a custom 21” length set I found on eBay from a shop called tipsntongs - no affiliation with them.
The included wire is only 14AWG, so I nipped it and crimped in a 10/2 with ground flex cord. Last thing I did was remove the sticker on the outside (personal preference) and sprayed the transformer core with the same red insulating varnish I used on my starter motor windings. I’m sure it didn’t need it, the core is laminated steel and already has a coating.

My 3M 200ml gun came in, and I just got a cartridge of 3M panel adhesive in the mail too. So.. ive got everything I need to do the job... I just have to DO IT. Ive had the Blair spot weld cutter kit for a few months now too.

Anyway, everyone loves photos, so here are a few of the welder and my test coupons.

If I recall, the weld nugget needs to measure 1/8” across and the base metal should tear out around it. The metal should NOT peel up cleanly, or pop apart. These are the first few test welds I’ve made and it still needs the tong pressure set for my actual material thickness as I can see a few did not make a satisfactory nugget. The coupons were 26 and 20 gauge, much thinner than the 18 and 16 gauge metric equivalent of the pan and tunnel flange.
We’re on baby watch and due any day now, I might be able to get the pans in during my two week maternity leave from work but we’ll see
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

Today I got started on removing the driver’s side pan. The aft pan cross brace needs to be repaired or replaced so I’ll be fixing it too after I get the pan out! I tried the Blair 3/8” spot weld drill and I can definitely recommend it. It won’t get all of the spot welds just due to ergonomics working by the tunnel so I brought out my right angle die grinder and a rotary ball file. Man those things are bad mama jamas! Don’t let a ball file get away from you or you’ll have skip marks all over the place.
The outboard area of the Napoleon hat has two small weld beads that also need to be cut through. For those, I used my 4-1/2” angle grinder with a cutoff wheel for most of the work, and cleaned up the last areas with the ball file.

I’ve been considering different ways of removing the old pan for several months now (yes I overthink life in general ) and ultimately decided to go the most surgical way I can with my current skill set and inventory of tools. It looks like the most common ways to remove a pan are sawzall and pneumatic chisel... I dunno guys that seems pretty tough on the base metal to me. Maybe it’s fine. So call it personal preference! I like to drill out panels and remove them intact where possible just for future reference.

The black and blue handled tool is called a seam buster, and I got it from the Matco truck with the red die grinder next to it. They’re sold everywhere but I just happened to first see it on the truck
Use a seam buster.. not a chisel. It is made for doing this sort of work but ALWAYS drill or grind down the spot welds before using it or you’ll tear the metal edges out. If you start by going over the flange area with a maroon scotchbrite roloc on a die grinder, the spot weld depressions will start to stand out and become much easier to accurately locate and center drill. The Blair drill will wander if you’re not straight so any extra help centering up on the weld is good.
The key is to stop just short of breaking through the top layer of metal. You don’t want to see drill circles on your base metal. Even if you grind them out you still have a weakened area, so go slowly. Most of the time you can get close with the drill, then pop it loose with the seam buster.
That’s all for tonight!
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

When I got home from work this morning, I decided to just go ahead and finish unbolting the LH pan. Once I got it out, I made a fairly disappointing discovery that should have already been obvious... the tunnel flange is actually two stampings spot welded together: the tunnel itself and the tunnel floor.
This wouldn’t be a big deal but I just really doubt my little Horrible Freight spot welder has the amperage to make a clean weld through three layers, sandwiched with 3M seam sealer mayonnaise. I really, really didn’t want to have to mig weld the pans in.

Time to get some sleep, and think on it.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

My pan is officially rust-free today!
I finished removing the RH pan half and dropped both replacement pieces in for a fit check. Looking good!
A few more prep tasks and they’ll be ready to bolt in.

Also those black and grey gloves don’t protect against flapper sanding discs.

Addendum...

The Wolfsburg West pans come with a rear pan support and jack outlet loose in the box to be welded on during installation. I only needed a partial section of the left pan support and I actually have NO idea what happened to it and why it was cut and welded the way it was!
To clear the air on quality of the WW supports: yes, the metal is one gauge thinner than stock. I would not call it low quality, but it is also not stock thickness. The stamping profile is very close to OG.
Template bolted in place, taken before I made the first cut:

First round of welds

Ground down.. I used a flap disc on the angle grinder to get 80% of the way, then followed up with a 36 grit roloc disc on the die grinder and finally a maroon scotchbrite roloc for final cleanup

Now for the seat track discussion, I had to oil the tracks up but this late model seat slid on pretty easily. Had to make one small adjustment to the front track where a tab on the seat hit the track. 👍🏾

_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

Hope nobody minds me updating every few days!!
I measured the tunnel flange thickness and found that the tunnel bottom cover and the tunnel itself are both approx 14ga. The floor pan is 18ga. My spot welder has a max combined thickness capacity of 3/16" which means I'm already over the maximum thickness it's rated to weld.
Thought about it for a few days and ultimately came to the conclusion I either need a higher amperage spot welder (more $$$$) or I can plug weld with my MIG welder.

So this afternoon, then, I tried out the spot welder on a jack point! The Wolfsburg West jack points are not 100% match for OG. I measured from the body mount hole of the rear pan support to the centerline of the jack point, on my original rusted pan. Then transferred that measurement to the new pan, and that's where I found the WW jack point will stick out under the bottom of the pan if not trimmed.

Trimmed it down, then had to tweak the flanges to get everything to sit flat and flush

Then started on the spot welds:

I put way too many welds in, trying to work on my duration and squeeze pressure!! And of course I had a good helper coloring on my other pan half while I worked.

The stock jack points are MIG welded in two other areas, so I'll finish it up and then start on the other side.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[scrivyscriv]

I got two weeks off work with the new baby girl being born, and this week I primed a bunch more parts.. epoxy primer first coat followed by a urethane high build for a tie coat.
Just a bunch of miscellaneous parts and some cores. Spring plates, caps, steering knuckles, new brake wheel cylinders, new front brake shoes, all four drums and backing plates, two steering gearbox cores, air cleaner, heater boxes, etc.

The brake drums probably won’t be usable; or at least the rear drums. Im still waiting for a gauge rod to calibrate my drum micrometer. One of the rear drums has several stripped holes for the lug bolts and the other is a generic aftermarket drum with no markings.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[Big Bill]

Robert your pan is coming along nicely, you are making it look easy to install the pans . You mentioned stripped lug bolt holes, what will you do to repair them if them are within spec. or will you just replace the drum? Thank You.

[Zundfolge1432]

[scrivyscriv]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Bill I’m painting the drums with the idea of using one for display on my brake drum lathe (50’s/60’s Drum Dokter).. I have read about some thread repair procedures but they are either not cost effective or are low quality. If I need an M12 time sert for other hardware repairs on the vehicle or engine I may consider trying them on the drum with damaged threads to keep as a spare.

One of the frustrating slash annoying things I have noticed on numerous other repair and rebuild topics is rusty new parts. Especially brake parts - cast master and wheel cylinders are an obvious one. Brake shoes and springs get pretty crusty too and while it arguably doesn’t make a huge difference in the life of a daily driver, it just doesn’t feel good to put hours of work into a project only to stare at surface rust on those new parts.

If any of the brake drums pass my overall pre inspection, I’ll mount them on the lathe and clean the paint off the friction surface to take an accurate inside measurement, which will be the ultimate decider of what happens next.
Back Story: Several years ago I had a crappy ‘68 on a ‘72 bug I wanted to use as a DD “airport car” beater. I went through some very basic stuff but forgot to go through the brakes thoroughly. On the way home from work one day after I got it running, I was going down a bridge when I felt the pedal sink just like I’d opened up a bleeder. I was able to pump the brakes enough to slow down for an emergency turn in to the truck stop but not slow enough and I plowed the divider curb at the entrance, I probably ran up on it about 10-15mph. It didn’t break anything but it’s one of those experiences burned in my head! One of the neglected wheel cylinders puked a seal. That’s why I’m putting what seems like an inordinate amount of time and effort in to something as simple as the brakes - every component I’ve got apart for paint right now has the potential to cause life-altering damage if they fail or are mis-installed. The upside is I’ll know what condition everything started in when I sit my butt in the seat every single day!
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.