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Advice for stocker single port rebuild
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scrivyscriv
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Hey guys.
I started going through the stock single port engine (HO case) that was in the 1967 beetle I recently bought, and my goal was to just fix any weak areas and make sure the engine is reliable to be a daily driver. The end play checks great at .004", as accurately as my HF dial indicator can resolve I guess. So that's nice.

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Well, I wasn't really surprised when the #4 plug brought a thread repair insert with it when I was pulling the plugs:

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I broke it down to just rods hanging out tonight, ready to split to check the meat and potatoes before I start making decisions.
I'm looking for advice - I've gotten a LOT of extremely valuable help from guys here over the years, and I really respect the experienced opinions.

This engine will be pushing a stock 67 bug... I'm considering bumping up to 85.5mm P&C, a pair of new SP heads from ACnet, counterweighted 69mm crank and stock rebuilt rods from DPR, probably stock 31pict carburetor and stock peashooter exhaust.
Arrow What is a good cam for this build? I want decent MPG, and I'd like to keep up with the traffic more or less.
Arrow What options do I have for an oil pump, since my case has 6mm studs?

At the end of the day, I want reliable power.. I'm not against a better carb setup or exhaust upgrade, but I don't want to sink a lot of performance upgrades into an H case. I will do the doghouse oil cooler upgrade, full flow oil filter, and run all the tins with thermostat.. what else??
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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

You are going to need to have case savers install while it's apart, and most likely a line bore. If you are buying new heads, you might as well have them bored for 88mm thick wall cylinders.

There is no need for a CW crank in this engine. This stock crank reground will be perfect and probably better quality.

Make sure to clean up the bowls under the valve seats, and get a good 3 angle valve job done on the heads. Also back cut the intake valves, but not the exhausts. I would use a cb2280 cam with bolt on 1.25 rockers on the intake only.

Another option would be to have the case bored as well and make it a 1776cc. The added displacement makes a big difference, and the case most likely needs to be squared up and new cylinder seal surfaces anyways.

It's a slippery slope, and most others will say there is no reason to build a single port, but they can run really good and drive really nice when they are carefully thought out.

Brian
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Thatís because most of the people Pooh pooing the idea of single port have little to no experience with them or ainít old enough to remember them, or maybe theyíve lost too many brain cells and forgotten. Very Happy Then again this is high performance forum so if you are a hammer everything looks like a nail. I would do all the things you suggested except skip the 88s keep it 1600 and balance it. It might be time to get back to basics and reread an old book like how to hotrod vw engines by Bill Fisher. Written in 1970 it has solid info on what was happening then using OEM parts but thatís not to say time has stood still, advances have been made. Iím with you keep it mostly stock but you an cheat a little using choice OEM items.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Do case saver that case for sure. Maybe line bore as well. Stock crank will be fine, do work the heads for better flow always helps. If possible convert it to a dog house cooling.
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scrivyscriv
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Is there a benefit to increasing displacement if I keep stock carb and exhaust?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

scrivyscriv wrote:
Is there a benefit to increasing displacement if I keep stock carb and exhaust?

A little, because you get a better lower and midrange, but it has to be in concjunction with a cam with more duration and lift.
The CB 2280 comes to mind, with 1,25 rockers.
8,3 to 8,5 CR. on midgrade fuel
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

The spark plug hole can be repaired permanently with a Time-Sert.

83mm pistons and cylinders are no longer available, so you'd definitely be moving up to 85.5mm or larger.

Agree about case savers and line bore, and getting the cylinder heads/valves done.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Yes on the case savers and I would use the 8mm stud ones. Dan
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scrivyscriv
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Ok, I hear yíall. I had forgotten about case savers. I have read a little about the 8mm studs being less prone to pull out too!
Arrow Why not use a counterweight crank?
Over the threads Iíve read, it looked like c/w 69mm cranks were easier on the case saddles for a longer life of the build. My last build I got rods from DPR and they were absolutely immaculate, so I was planning to get their welded c/w stock crank for this engine.
The reason I am wanting to stay single port is 100% for the stock look
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

scrivyscriv wrote:
Ok, I hear yíall. I had forgotten about case savers. I have read a little about the 8mm studs being less prone to pull out too!
Arrow Why not use a counterweight crank?
Over the threads Iíve read, it looked like c/w 69mm cranks were easier on the case saddles for a longer life of the build. My last build I got rods from DPR and they were absolutely immaculate, so I was planning to get their welded c/w stock crank for this engine.
The reason I am wanting to stay single port is 100% for the stock look

Less prone to cracking the engine case too.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

it seems your just going to drive it around town right small trips . I cant see why your wanting a counterweighted crank unless you like spending money .you never said if you want to race it. I don't think you want to rev it over 5,000 rpm do you ?. sounds like you want a stock rebuild you said you wanted to run stock muffler .headers are a pain in the butt they don't have pre heat to the intake manifold .for good mpg .well they do but it does not work well as a stock muffler does .most headers rust out faster .there ok if your buiding a hot street motor. are you going to run heater boxes. with a stock muffler you get better heat . stock carb .keep things simple my friend. for what your doing a stock cam would work for you. I like SP heads .I got my best MPG ever from a 1600 SP motor. and since its a 1967 bug . I think your building the right motor .yes yes on case savers . people some times don't under stand. there working on a motor that's almost 53 years old . if your lucky you might have a case that can be rebuilt. it depends. if it had a hard life .and most cases have had the crap run out of them . happiness some times is a stock motor . just my two cents spencerfvee
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

No harm in a CW crank if you like it. But it is much more important to get the rotating assembly balanced together than a CW crank with those rpms. Also, remember that when you add countewrweights you are adding to the rotating mass, so the engine actually becomes lazier, unless you remove some weight from the flywheel.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
No harm in a CW crank if you like it.

I've never run a counterweighted crankshaft in my 1835cc engine, but I don't take it over 4500 rpm either. That 1835cc engine has not been apart since 1986.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

I too, am looking at this single port engine I bought for $40 bucks this past August at the Eureka Springs, AR show and am wanting to build up a nice engine out of it.
I like the idea of maybe a 1641 or 1679, single port. Single carb. Thermostat with the flaps. Stock exhaust, heat riser and exchangers. Factory oil bath. Just good ole, VW logic. Stock VW crank, some new heads. Of course I still need to tear into this ugly looking thing...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Go all stock with a 30pict3, and a 69.5mm CW crank
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
Go all stock with a 30pict3, and a 69.5mm CW crank


Wouldnít the 30 PICT 3 carb restrict some of the displacement if I were to build a 1679? Though my understanding is the single port intake is 30mm so the PICT 34/3 wouldnít necessarily contribute as its intended?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

My suggestion is to fix your engine with whatever good used parts you can get leaving it a stock 1600. Then get another dual relief case and build a nice performance engine as you desire while driving the stock 1600. When the 2nd engine is complete you can install and sell the old 1600.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

Had a slow day and was able to blast most of the tinware.. of course I destroyed the oil filler while attempting to disassemble it from the generator stand. 🙄
Iím on the fence between epoxy and a good 2k black single stage, or taking these all to the Powdercoat shop down the street from work. The 1971 bus dual port I built was mostly Powdercoat but I had some issues with the edges chipping, and the long sled tin peeled in sheets.
I ordered most of my full flow oil stuff from JEGS and they delivered it today. Gates push-loc hose, jegs AN8 fittings, and red anodized pipe plugs for the oil galleries... I used a generic brand pump cover last engine build; Iím thinking about the GB pressure relief cover this time (if I can find it and the 6mm bushings).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

So far the crankshaft measures GREAT for bearing diameter and runout! All in spec.
I forgot to check runout at the flywheel face with everything assembled so I checked height from the pressure plate mount surface to the flywheel face with a depth gauge at each bolt holt, and it wasn't consistent so I dropped the flywheel off at the machine shop last week.
The pressure plate wasn't 100% flat; I lapped it on a granite tile and it cleaned up with a little bit of elbow grease. It looks like the original pressure plate so I'd like to keep it vs buying a new stock replacement.. new clutch disc of course, I'm planning on getting a rigid daiken.
Last but not least the heads need work. No cracks anywhere that I could see after a thorough cleanup, and the seats look good, but the exhaust guides are beyond bad. The machine shop told me to bring them in when I pick up the flywheel and they'll see what all it would take to rebuild them.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Advice for stocker single port rebuild Reply with quote

I was wondering how you addressed the surfaces that have been coated with the purple dye.

(Please forgive the rudementry question. I can assemble an engine like a set of Legos and have lapped valves, but am largely ignorant).

Thank you.
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