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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 69
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 2:12 pm Post subject: RIP waterboxer |
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Today my waterboxer took its last ride…while driving I noticed a loss of power and a lot of shaking. The engine died and I was able to coast to a nearby parking lot to inspect. I smelled a lot of burning and knew the worst had happened…I found this lovely hole in the top of the engine and it confirmed my worst fear.
I’ve been researching engine swaps for a while because I knew this would happen eventually. I think my best option is to go Subaru swap at this point - I don’t want to dump a bunch of money just to have another underpowered and unreliable waterboxer. I found some websites that sell JDM Subaru 2.5s with upgraded head gaskets for around $2000. Has anyone ever bought an engine online and had good results?
My second concern is the install. I don’t have the money to pay a shop for the swap, but I am pretty mechanical and can follow directions. I saw van cafe sells a kit with detailed instructions - can anyone recommend this kit based on their experience? I have never done anything as involved as an engine swap, just smaller jobs like head gaskets, clutch, etc.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Ludwig Van - 1984 Vanagon GL, 1.9L manual transmission |
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bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4349
Location: United States, Iowa
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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I'd love to give you good advice on doing a transplant. I've got two Subi 2.2 transplants in my driveway, and neither of them are running well or at all right now.
The advice I'd give in the case of your expenses/budget would be to phone around to places that do transplants, and get a 1.9 or 2.1 WBX that is being pulled but in working order, for the transplant. Best money you can spend is to keep it simple, and it will be the fastest way to get your bus back on the road. Transplants often take DIY'ers most of a year. My kids' Subi transplant is somewhere in its third year. I think..
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 69
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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| bobbyblack wrote: |
I'd love to give you good advice on doing a transplant. I've got two Subi 2.2 transplants in my driveway, and neither of them are running well or at all right now.
The advice I'd give in the case of your expenses/budget would be to phone around to places that do transplants, and get a 1.9 or 2.1 WBX that is being pulled but in working order, for the transplant. Best money you can spend is to keep it simple, and it will be the fastest way to get your bus back on the road. Transplants often take DIY'ers most of a year. My kids' Subi transplant is somewhere in its third year. I think.. |
Most of a year but how many hours a week are they putting into it? This is my daily driver and I’m prepared to work 12 hour days to fix it. My job is fairly flexible and I know I could get a good chunk of time off.
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Ludwig Van - 1984 Vanagon GL, 1.9L manual transmission |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Love My Westy
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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| Will you be able to get a 2.5 to pass emissions in CA? I thought they would only pass a 2.2. |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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I would definitely have the conversion wiring harness made by a specialist. With a well configured, pre-tested wiring harness the Subaru conversion goes together quickly and is really not a lot harder than a stock engine replacement. Even if someone is fairly skilled at wiring, there are a lot of details and harness dimensions that often take a lot of trial and erroring to get just right.
Jeff Robenolt does excellent harnesses, and Smallcar and RMW offer the service too.
I don't have any experience with JDM 2.5 engines, but I was always under the impression that the EJ25 was not used in Japan. So I'd be a little skeptical about the origin of those motors. I think you can still buy a brand new EJ25 short block at the dealer, and then just have the heads from a high mileage/ core engine rebuilt. It seems like that's a good route to go. |
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fxr
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2014
Posts: 2323
Location: Bay area CA
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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| JJfierce wrote: |
I’ve been researching engine swaps for a while because I knew this would happen eventually. I think my best option is to go Subaru swap at this point - I don’t want to dump a bunch of money just to have another underpowered and unreliable waterboxer. I found some websites that sell JDM Subaru 2.5s with upgraded head gaskets for around $2000.
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Your research should have indicated to you that you need to use a 2.2 with the Kennedy kit, not a 2.5, to be able to pass SMOG in CA. That's the only Subie swap combination that has an Executive Order (EO) that allows this engine change. I know a few districts don't do SMOG if you're lucky enough to live in one, but that could always change.
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Jim Crowther
1984 1.9l EJ22 Westy Wolfsburg Edition
Vespa GTS 300 |
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16CVs
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4024
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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$2200.00 dollars for a long block, plus the donor car you need to buy to get all of the other bits and pieces plus modding the harness and buying the install kit.
Buy a long block and be on your way. You say you don't have money to pay someone to do a conversion. Time is as much a demon as the lack of money.
Why put yourself through the misery. Put another WBX in and be done in a day or 2 with none of the conversion issues that will plaque you for months.
If you were closer I would invite you to drive my WBX Vs my 2.2 Subaru. A direct replacement and you re Use all of your recently replaced parts and no visit to A referee.
I did my Subaru conversion because I ought a complete take out. Engine harness adapter plate and exhaust. Mine took a day and was no harder than ding a WBX exchange.
Forge on.
Stacy
Just a thought
Stacy
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Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.
Last edited by 16CVs on Mon May 08, 2023 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3796
Location: VA/TN
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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I did a Subaru EJ22 swap in 2020 to replace my 1.9L with digijet system.
Parts were getting hard to find and I had many issues getting the van to idle correctly.
If Marco mansispeed had his EFI out at the time, I would have tried that system out. My waterboxer was low miles (140K) and a rebuild would have been fun. It is for that reason I kept my waterboxer and it is in the garage.
I love my Subaru. If it were to go out, I would probably buy a new OEM Subaru short block for $2k and have a pro subaru shop make a Frankenstein motor (EJ25 block with EJ22 heads).
I would not go with a rebuilt JDM motor. I'd either get another waterboxer or go with a Subaru.
Sorry I missed the part about CA - yeah I'd go with waterboxer.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Last edited by shagginwagon83 on Mon May 08, 2023 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9800
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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| 16CVs wrote: |
| Why put yourself through the misery. Put another WBX in and be done in a day or 2 with none of the conversion issues that will plaque you for months. |
What he said. My van is now my daily driver and the GW 2.2 that has 60,000 miles on it does everything I ask of it.
If it blew up tomorrow I would get another WBX without hesitation. |
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hdenter
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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No subbie 2.5 in CA. If you want more power and a CA smog legal engine you'll need to go with the 1.8T. I would stick with the WBXer and go for a GW 2.3. Maybe spend the extra money and do the GW EFI route. Marco's EFI isn't CARB legal here, either.
Good Luck!
Hans
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'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 1559
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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You should have rebuilt it before it hand grenaded. Now it is pretty much scrap metal rather than a good core. $$$$$😩
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Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 69
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2023 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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I am nervous about spending the money on a gowesty engine just to have another waterboxer. Are they any more reliable than an original engine? I have had to have this van towed at least 6 times and am tired of the unreliability.
Would love to rebuild the engine myself but I have no idea what I’m doing and don’t really have anyone that could help.
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Ludwig Van - 1984 Vanagon GL, 1.9L manual transmission |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 816
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 2:59 am Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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This is in your zip code and would be a quick fix for cheap. Then you can drive while you plan your next move / conversion.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2597540
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1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 3:16 am Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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| Sure you didn't have a 2.1L in there? The 1.9L engine bottom ends don't let go very often. |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3341
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 3:25 am Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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Looks like a bolt fell off. Not snapped.
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calsurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2022
Posts: 127
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 8:45 am Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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| I'm in San Diego and as far as I know, nobody has a CARB Subaru 2.5 kit available yet. I'm hoping and waiting. Rumor has it that Small Car and Buslab are both working on it, but who knows it could be just vaporware. Buslab (the only one I spoke to said if they do they'd post here on Samba) wouldn't confirm or deny if they are. If you want a CARB Subaru motor, the Kennedy 2.2 is the only game in CA. at this time. |
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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 69
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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This looks promising. Would the 2.1 cooling system fit with my stock system or would I have to upgrade anything?
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Ludwig Van - 1984 Vanagon GL, 1.9L manual transmission |
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shagginwagon83
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3796
Location: VA/TN
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2023 9:03 am Post subject: Re: RIP waterboxer |
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it is funny to me that the catalytic converter is more expensive than the whole engine.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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