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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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For years my '67 bug has run superbly. That record came to an end a couple weeks ago when the engine chugged suddenly, recovered, and then slowly died as if it simply ran out of gas. I made it off the main road and attempted a restart. It would start then immediately die. Trying to feather the pedal upon subsequent restarts was futile. I mashed the pedal to the floor and restarted. It roared to life and that seemed to clear whatever obstruction was at issue and I drove home event-free.
But the following day, it was clear there was still a carb issue. I removed it, cleaned it, reassembled and reinstalled. It ran okay but completely died upon tapping the accelerator. R and R again with 2nd cleaning. Reinstalled and it idles fine, accelerates great, but only as long as it's gradual. If you tap the pedal at any point during idle or holding a rev, it balks but doesn't die. It recovers and revs up.
The accelerator jet, which I believe is the hooked one "A" shoots a nice solid stream of fuel straight down the carb throat when the throttle lever is pulled. I'm stumped as to why it hesitates and balks when I tap the pedal. It still idles perfectly and will run up very smoothly as long as I don't goose the pedal. Any ideas?
_________________ -Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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67_13Deluxe Samba Resident Alien
Joined: February 18, 2005 Posts: 912 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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When you pulled it apart how did the accelerator pump diaphragm look? I had a similar problem and the diaphragm was no good. Replaced and all was well. _________________ If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullsh*t.
56 Beetle - Wilbur. I found a lot of lipstick on this pig so far.
63 Beetle - Luna
66 13 window Bus - Tetanus
71 Bay Window - Lola. Totaled. |
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TheRide Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2019 Posts: 293 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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is your timing advance working? |
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66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
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Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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TheRide wrote: |
is your timing advance working? |
This _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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There was definitely a few bits of fine debris in the carb bowl when I took it apart the first time. And the accelerator jet was shooting against the side of the carb throat with an inconsistent stream. Now that that issue has been cleared up, yet there's still a small degree of hesitation, I will look into the distributor advance. Looking at both Bentley and Idiots, but any suggestions for checking the advance function is appreciated. It's the stock dizzy. _________________ -Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9756 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
There was definitely a few bits of fine debris in the carb bowl when I took it apart the first time. And the accelerator jet was shooting against the side of the carb throat with an inconsistent stream. Now that that issue has been cleared up, yet there's still a small degree of hesitation, I will look into the distributor advance. Looking at both Bentley and Idiots, but any suggestions for checking the advance function is appreciated. It's the stock dizzy. |
Get a length of clean vacuum hose. Connect it to the distributor diaphragm. Remove the distributor cap. Apply suction with your mouth and block the vacuum hose with your tongue.
With suction applied and blocked. The diaphragm should remain in the full advance position. If the diaphragm arm can be observed moving while under vacuum (suction). The diaphragm would be suspect.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
Get a length of clean vacuum hose. Connect it to the distributor diaphragm. Remove the distributor cap. Apply suction with your mouth and block the vacuum hose with your tongue.
With suction applied and blocked. The diaphragm should remain in the full advance position. If the diaphragm arm can be observed moving while under vacuum (suction). The diaphragm would be suspect.
Good Luck. |
As I was reading the Bentley manual about vacuum advance function, your suggestion popped into my mind. I just bought a foot of vacuum tube from WW, so I'll give it a try. My issue is likely two-fold: dirty carb and obstructed jet, and vacuum advance issue.
As I think back, I noted the distinct smell (albeit very faint) that accompanies an improperly firing engine. I can't describe it, but I've smelled it before in other cars, especially big block FOMOCO and MEL engines with timing issues.
I'll try the diagnosis of diaphragm operation and if the plate doesn't move, then that's confirmation. I'll report my findings... _________________ -Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
There was definitely a few bits of fine debris in the carb bowl when I took it apart the first time. And the accelerator jet was shooting against the side of the carb throat with an inconsistent stream. Now that that issue has been cleared up, yet there's still a small degree of hesitation, I will look into the distributor advance. Looking at both Bentley and Idiots, but any suggestions for checking the advance function is appreciated. It's the stock dizzy. |
Aim the jet so it shoots between the wall and the opening plate... splatter reduces its effectiveness. Be sure you peen it in the correct place afterwords, or it might come loose and get ingested into the engine.
While you are at it, loosen the access pump cover screws just enough the diaphragm can slip slightly. Then open the throttle completely, and while holding it open, tighten the four screws. This puts the right tension on the diaphragm, for best jet, and also will not let it get overstretched and tear. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24733 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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Did you remove and clean out that nozzle by spraying carb cleaner in the reverse direction? Those can still spray, but be partly clogged enough to cause a problem. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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KTPhil wrote: |
Aim the jet so it shoots between the wall and the opening plate... splatter reduces its effectiveness. Be sure you peen it in the correct place afterwords, or it might come loose and get ingested into the engine. |
I already got that issue cleared up. Interestingly, many years ago, the jet fell off because whoever rebuilt the carb didn't ping it in snugly enough!
KTPhil wrote: |
While you are at it, loosen the access pump cover screws just enough the diaphragm can slip slightly. Then open the throttle completely, and while holding it open, tighten the four screws. This puts the right tension on the diaphragm, for best jet, and also will not let it get overstretched and tear. |
I hadn't thought of that. _________________ -Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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Airstream65 Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2019 Posts: 172 Location: Tulsa,Ok
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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I have an issue with my 30 PICT-1 dripping fuel after engine is shut off. Fuel drips slowly out of the squirter tube! I've been trying to solve this issue for a month! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24733 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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Airstream65 wrote: |
I have an issue with my 30 PICT-1 dripping fuel after engine is shut off. Fuel drips slowly out of the squirter tube! I've been trying to solve this issue for a month! |
When it does that, can you see fuel down inside the vent tube for the float chamber?? _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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67 Florida Deluxe wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
While you are at it, loosen the access pump cover screws just enough the diaphragm can slip slightly. Then open the throttle completely, and while holding it open, tighten the four screws. This puts the right tension on the diaphragm, for best jet, and also will not let it get overstretched and tear. |
I hadn't thought of that. |
I read it in an old manual, but can't find which one. It made sense to me, so I've done it ever since. |
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Airstream65 Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2019 Posts: 172 Location: Tulsa,Ok
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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Not vent tube, the sqirter itself, after driving. I can hear the little check ball rattle when I take carb apart, but it still has a slow drip for a while after shutdown. Fuel pump pressure is 1.5-2lbs. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24733 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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Airstream65 wrote: |
Not vent tube, the sqirter itself, after driving. I can hear the little check ball rattle when I take carb apart, but it still has a slow drip for a while after shutdown. Fuel pump pressure is 1.5-2lbs. |
Understand that, but the nozzle is higher than the float chamber. So if dripping and you remove the air cleaner, and see the fuel in the vent tube. That means the fuel level is higher than it should be, but not quite high enough to pour out the vent tube.
Only other way for fuel to climb uphill would be due to a wicking action, just like how a wick in an oil lamp will pull up the oil in the lower chamber. Since there is no wick in the carb.... _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Airstream65 Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2019 Posts: 172 Location: Tulsa,Ok
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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Can I slightly bend float? |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24733 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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Airstream65 wrote: |
Can I slightly bend float? |
Not really, personally have added another gasket to the shut off valve to bring it just that much farther down. Cured the fuel dripping problem we had in hot weather that was causing us a flooding problem. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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67 Florida Deluxe Samba Purist
Joined: June 21, 2005 Posts: 7987 Location: Gainesville and Tampa, Florida
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Posted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Solex 30 PICT-1 Carb Hesitation |
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As relates to the original post, here's my outcome: SUCCESS!!
The hesitation and bogging issue was two-fold; a clogged accelerator jet AND clogged vacuum advance tube. Sorry for the dissertation, but it may help summarize for someone else with the same issue.
When I originally removed the carb I noted a little bit of fine particulate in the bottom of the bowl. Operating the throttle lever, I noted the stream from the accelerator jet ("A" in my original post photo) was bubbly and also would hit the side of the carb throat if you moved the lever quickly. Lots of carb cleaner spray and compressed air from the duster cans and it finally squirted properly. (Note, I did not remove the jet, all was done through the hole in the accelerator pump.) I also shot carb cleaner (using the straw) through every other orifice and followed up with compressed air.
Reinstalled carb and still had hesitation issue but not nearly as bad; the engine didn't die. I tested the operation of the distributor advance diaphragm by attaching a new hose to the long metal vacuum tube that connects to the diaphragm and gently applied suction. I watched to see if the plate in the distributor moved (cap removed). It operated perfectly with the slightest of suction. Connected vacuum hose to vacuum tube in carb and blew. I felt a tiny something "give" which must have been the obstruction.
Followed KTPhil's suggestion from above related to the accelerator pump diaphragm, reinstalled the carb and cranked it intermittently until the bowl filled and the engine tried to fire. Tapped the pedal to ensure the choke was set and hit the key again. It fired right up and idled perfectly (as it did before). This time, it never faltered. Took the 'ol beater for a spin and kept going, it ran so well! When I returned, there was none of the distinct exhaust smell of a misfiring engine, which was caused by the vacuum advance not operating properly due to the obstruction that was in the vacuum tube.
So, properly operating accelerator jet and properly operating vacuum advance = resolved hesitation, balking and hindered power issue in this case. (And adding an inline fuel filter NOT above the distributor to ensure only clean fuel enters the carburetor bowl.) _________________ -Kent (BaT "daleallen")
OG member of the '67 Posse
A few of my toys, past and present
'56 Oval, '66 KG Conv't, '67 21-Window, '67 Bug, '79 SuperVert, '55 Pre-A Continental |
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