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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:11 pm Post subject: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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Hello, I’m new to the type 3 world, I’m currently restoring a 1964 beetle sunroof, so I have some ideas. I was looking on Craigslist and have seen this car for a while and looked into it and realized it was a nice car for $700. I’m thinking of getting it running, going through, fixing systems, and get it on the road. I honestly never looked much into type3s being more in the beetle forms. But this ad, the seats looked original and good, so I started looking more at it. I noticed the tires look original too with lots of other things. Based on what I see it looks like it could be a survivor. I got in contact with the person, he said it has a TITLE! He said the last time it was on the road was 1980 and it has a seized engine with a large roof dent. He said he would go down on price, I think I could pay $500 for it. Does it seem to be a good deal, Thoughts?
_________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro
Last edited by Ceckert64 on Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:37 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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vwfye Samba Member

Joined: April 15, 2000 Posts: 7723
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:19 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Elm Green Squareback on Craigslist |
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In type 3 land, it is all about the floors! _________________ 64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3"
1974 Ghia "PUK" |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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gt1953 Samba Member

Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13907 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:12 am Post subject: Re: 1970 Elm Green Squareback on Craigslist |
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That roof looks a lil wrinkly. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Bobnotch Samba Member

Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 23031 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: 1970 Elm Green Squareback on Craigslist |
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I bet most of that roof dent will just pop out. Like most VWs, a hole in the battery tray is almost standard equipment. For 500, you could do worse. I know I've rebuilt worse type 3s (look in my signature).
Edit; I think I've seen pics of this car on here before. Is it in the Ann Arbor area? If so, then I've seen pics of it before. The seller was asking good money for it at the time. I want to say 1K to 1500 for it back then. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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gt1953 Samba Member

Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13907 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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That paint will look nice down the road for sure. Nice condition for your region and a complete vehicle it appears. Do take your time and yes rebuild the engine for sure. Once you drive a solid running stopping type three you will be surprised by the ride.
Do hope you obtained it for a nice price. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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THanks! Most of the paint is nice, but there are some rust issues. The front and rear of the right pan have some holes. I started cleaning the crap out today. For grins I put it forth and rocked it a bit and the engine turned easy so it isn’t actually seized like I though. I also found some rust holes in the trunk. The back of the car is solid, the front, well... I will post pictures tomorrow. The carpet had Buick rubber floor mats on them and it looks good. I hope to fix some of the rust tomorrow. I’m going to try to fix some rust tomorrow and finish cleaning. _________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro |
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Bobnotch Samba Member

Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 23031 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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Looks like a mostly complete unmolested car for your 500. Your son looks like a proud new owner too. Just make sure he does some of the work.
I bet most of that paint will clean up real good.  _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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Lol, that’s me, my dad the helper! My dad is actually not the VW guy, I am! But he always helps when I need it, he’s very supportive of it. I really enjoy spend time with him.
Today I got the engine pulled, I labeled all of the wire with masking tape and wrote what they were. I have never truely “dropped” an engine since I took the engine off and on when the body was off on my beetle. You have to get the rear high, also having to support the transmission was new. I tested the electrical, the hazards work, the clock, headlight (high/low), some of the driving lights, and a few dash lights. It’s amazing the amount of rust it has for 36,000 miles, all the documentation points to that being correct. I think a lot was mice also It did drive quite a few winter miles though, 5,000 in 75/76. I believe the car was park in 1976 because the husband was sick at the time and got put in storage, there are some things pointing to that. Here are a ton more pictures
The color tag has some other thing on with it, interesting...
_________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro
Last edited by Ceckert64 on Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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nineteensixtyfiveVG Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2009 Posts: 456 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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hahah damn, the seller said one hole in the battery tray? looks like a bit more than that. $500 is cheap though, great color too. good luck! |
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gt1953 Samba Member

Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13907 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:58 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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Oh Wow. Out west I would have not purchased that rusted of a vehicle. But back in rustosis regions you get what you can. Lots of critical rust repair ahead. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:54 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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Yeah, a bit more rust than I hoped but it isn’t terrible. I came with a title so that is a rarity. I have some welding skills from replacing most all of the lower foot on my bug. The heater channels are fairly solid so that’s good, just a few small problem areas. The front hole in the floor pan was covered by the foot rest, and there was a huge mouse nest there. Even the engine tin has some bad rust out. _________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:24 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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Okay, I will tell the hole story of what I was told about the car/ and what I figured out.
So the original owner Joann Allen bought it on June 19, 1970 from Thunder Bay Imports in Alpena Michigan. It looks like she lived in Clio at the time. By October of 1975, it had 29,760 miles on it when things started getting recorded. There is also 5 handwritten pages glued into the owners manual on how to work on it. My guess is that the husband did it and I know the husband got sick at some point, so I’m guessing he wrote it down for someone else to do the matinence and that’s why stuff started to get recorded. Then by March 15, 1976, the last record for it was an oil change at 34,257 miles. Then the put on 2,000 more and that’s when it got parked, I’m not sure it it was immediately put in a pole barn, maybe 1980? That was when I was told they stopped driving it due to the husbands health, maybe it was when it was put away. Then, the roof was so wrinkly because they had put abs wood on the roof and then stacked a bunch of roofing shingles in it, I’m guessing on other parts of the body too, based on the dents. Then fast forward to a few years ago, the lady’s son is selling it because she passed away. Then, the person I got it from bought it and took it home. He has wanted to fix it up but he is busy with a bus restoration and has kids that are getting older and wouldn’t have time to fix it up, also, he was planning on building a pool house where it sat, as in the Craigslist pictures, he had it stored in a canopy. Then, I came, bought it from him, and took it home. I have the title to transfer over to my name still because he never transfered it to his name. The title is from 1973, in Joann Allen’s name. Luckily, before she passed, she had signed her name on the title, so that will make life easier.
Then, over the years since it’s been sitting, the mice made a palace out of it and their pee causes things to rust out.
Edit: I belive her maiden name was Joann Loisell then the new title was to put it in her married name since it was Joann Allen _________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2063 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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I was looking through things and found the original window sticker!
Some safety glasses to one of the Allens
The records
Then the handwritten instructions put in the owners manual
It’s all really cool, the accessories book is really cool! It’s from VW, are they rare? I’m guessing in General it’s rare to find this much original paper work. _________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro |
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Bobnotch Samba Member

Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 23031 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:14 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback |
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Nice documentation. I think the hand written instructions were for a bug though, as the 70 SB has FI going off your engine pull pics.
The rust you're seeing on the front fenders is kind of standard equipment rust. Same applies for the rust behind the brake res, and above the fuel inlet pipe. I say that, because that metal is behind the boxed sections (reinforcements) that trap dirt and water. The rust on the right floor heat outlet is from a windshield leak (kind of normal). The front of the heater boxes are not normal, along with the front engine tin piece. Some of that can however be traced directly to rodent wizz.  _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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