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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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I took my drivers test today in Joann and passed! Yay! The guy said this was the third manual transmission car he has done a test in 5,000 test  Tuesday I go to the Secretary of State and will get my license!  yesterday I finally got Joann’s plate transferred from the beetle so now Joann is completely legal. I was looking and I think I’ve put ~1,300 miles on her since I got it running. Joann was doing 70-75 great today on non groved pavement. The mpg was 29.8mpg it was about 50-60 miles to the drivers test location today, mostly highway with no issues.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:56 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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Congrats on passing your test. 
Sounds like you've been exercising Joann quite a bit to put 1300 miles on her. She's probably loving it after sitting so long. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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Thank you!
Joann is definitely getting a work out! Everything has been really good. There are still a few things that I need to do.
-the left rear wheel cylinder is leaking a little, so that need to be replaced or rebuilt. Is the bore for it the same as the bug because I have a few good bug wheel cylinders.
-I need to replace the rear shoes after I fix the Wheel cylinder.
-I need to replace the outer right window scraper
-Adjust the e-brake
-I think the rear shocks Absorbers I got are bad and need to replace them. Before I had put them in the car they didn’t compress right, it went through hard and soft spots. The front ones seemed fine though. They are KYB I believe.
Then, I noticed a few things that may need fixing but I would like to hear people’s thoughts;
>The rear wheels seem to be a little low like there is a lot of weight in the back and they are angled in a little at the top of the wheel. It’s not much but I wasn’t sure if that’s an issue.
> Also, should the fuel system keep pressure for a little bit after it’s turned off? As soon as the pump goes off, the pressure drops to nothing. When the cars running it keeps 28psi steady and I haven’t had any problems. Is that an issue or no?
Edit, I also just got my license today!
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:28 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Ceckert64 wrote: |
Thank you!
Joann is definitely getting a work out! Everything has been really good. There are still a few things that I need to do.
-the left rear wheel cylinder is leaking a little, so that need to be replaced or rebuilt. Is the bore for it the same as the bug because I have a few good bug wheel cylinders.
-I need to replace the rear shoes after I fix the Wheel cylinder.
-I need to replace the outer right window scraper
-Adjust the e-brake
-I think the rear shocks Absorbers I got are bad and need to replace them. Before I had put them in the car they didn’t compress right, it went through hard and soft spots. The front ones seemed fine though. They are KYB I believe.
Then, I noticed a few things that may need fixing but I would like to hear people’s thoughts;
>The rear wheels seem to be a little low like there is a lot of weight in the back and they are angled in a little at the top of the wheel. It’s not much but I wasn’t sure if that’s an issue.
> Also, should the fuel system keep pressure for a little bit after it’s turned off? As soon as the pump goes off, the pressure drops to nothing. When the cars running it keeps 28psi steady and I haven’t had any problems. Is that an issue or no?
Edit, I also just got my license today! |
I don't think they are the same size. You can get a wheel cylinder from a lot of places, but you'll have to order it (it's not a normally stocked item).
Same applies with the brake shoes. Might be worth looking on Rock Auto.
Window scraper is a very big job, in that you have to take the door apart to do them.
That's not a super hard job to do, but I'd wait until I replaced the brake shoes, and had them adjusted first.
Order up another set, and put them on. I'd go gas charged on a Squareback.
The tilt in at the top is normal for IRS. You can replace the rubber bushings at the torsion bar to correct some of it. To correct more, you'll need to replace the bushings in the lower arm (very big job).
The pump should drop to 20-24 psi in a 1/2 hour, then hold for the afternoon. If it's not, double check all of your hose connections.
Congrats.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:29 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
I don't think they are the same size. You can get a wheel cylinder from a lot of places, but you'll have to order it (it's not a normally stocked item).
Same applies with the brake shoes. Might be worth looking on Rock Auto.
Window scraper is a very big job, in that you have to take the door apart to do them.
That's not a super hard job to do, but I'd wait until I replaced the brake shoes, and had them adjusted first.
Order up another set, and put them on. I'd go gas charged on a Squareback.
The tilt in at the top is normal for IRS. You can replace the rubber bushings at the torsion bar to correct some of it. To correct more, you'll need to replace the bushings in the lower arm (very big job).
The pump should drop to 20-24 psi in a 1/2 hour, then hold for the afternoon. If it's not, double check all of your hose connections.
Congrats. |
Okay, thank you! I will get a new wheel cylinder then, I do have new shoes but I didn’t want to put them on since the brake fluid would likely destroy them.
When you say the window scrapers is a big job, how long does it usually take? When I did the drivers side door, it only took me three hours. Should I document it more? The shocks for the rear were Monroe gas charged shocks, I should have sent them back but I was in the though, “ it’s a brand new part, it can’t be bad”  I will probably hold off on replacing bushings for a while, I could do it but it’s not horrible enough yet.
On the fuel pressure, I don’t believe it’s a line. It drops instantly to zero after I turn it off. I’m guessing a stuck pressure regulator in the fuel pump. Could it be the rear pressure regulator in the engine? And is it just that it may vapor lock if it doesn’t hold pressure, or why does it need to hold pressure after the car is off? Thanks!
Edit: for stock pumps, is the single in out style pump or the wet type pump better, I have both types of extra ones.
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Qldelsie
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Queensland Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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For the outside scraper, you have to remove the alloy trim, therefore you have to remove the vent window, therefore you have to remove the bailey channel, therefore you have to remove the window winder mechanism, etc etc etc. So basically, even if you use your original alloy trim and just rivet a new scraper rubber on it, you still need to do all the above - a complete rebuild. Unfortunately this dismantling probably means you will probably destroy the (old and brittle) bailey channel, so you will need new. Clips might also be rusty, so you will need them. Bottom channel and rubber that supports the window glass might well be rusty (mine was), so needs replacing. And the little butterfly clips that hold winder mechanism in this lower channel will also probably be rusted, so you might also need them.
And if you are doing all that, you may as well do the inner scraper as well because you really don't want to be doing this job twice in your lifetime.
Mine will hopefully be done for me next week, because I have given up !!!!
Have fun !! Certainly for me, this has been the most tiresome part of my entire rebuild.
G
PS, While you are in there, again with the idea that you do not ever want to do this job twice (at least on the same car  ), you may as well rip out the rubbish original tar covered sound/vibration proofing that will be all puckered up, and before it comes completely loose and stops your window from going up and down. Replace with Dynamat or similar. And put anti rust paint or Penetrol or something similar in the lower door and up the side seems to prevent any (further) rust appearing. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:48 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Qldelsie wrote: |
For the outside scraper, you have to remove the alloy trim, therefore you have to remove the vent window, therefore you have to remove the bailey channel, therefore you have to remove the window winder mechanism, etc etc etc. So basically, even if you use your original alloy trim and just rivet a new scraper rubber on it, you still need to do all the above - a complete rebuild. Unfortunately this dismantling probably means you will probably destroy the (old and brittle) bailey channel, so you will need new. Clips might also be rusty, so you will need them. Bottom channel and rubber that supports the window glass might well be rusty (mine was), so needs replacing. And the little butterfly clips that hold winder mechanism in this lower channel will also probably be rusted, so you might also need them.
And if you are doing all that, you may as well do the inner scraper as well because you really don't want to be doing this job twice in your lifetime.
Mine will hopefully be done for me next week, because I have given up !!!!
Have fun !! Certainly for me, this has been the most tiresome part of my entire rebuild.
G |
See toward the bottom of page 18 of my 71 Notch thread in my signature. It shows replacing the rubbers on the trim.
It's a big job in that the entire door has to be disassembled just to get to the trim pieces, as they're the first thing to go onto the door.When taking it apart, you have to pay attention to what you're doing, as you can break the clips that hold the trim onto the door, or the tabs that hold the glass run channel (what Giles was calling the "bailey channel") as the clips are made of brittle metal (spring steel?) and break off easily (a pro tip, they slide off the hole opposite of the tab, and out of the groove).
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Ceckert64 wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
I don't think they are the same size. You can get a wheel cylinder from a lot of places, but you'll have to order it (it's not a normally stocked item).
Same applies with the brake shoes. Might be worth looking on Rock Auto.
Window scraper is a very big job, in that you have to take the door apart to do them.
That's not a super hard job to do, but I'd wait until I replaced the brake shoes, and had them adjusted first.
Order up another set, and put them on. I'd go gas charged on a Squareback.
The tilt in at the top is normal for IRS. You can replace the rubber bushings at the torsion bar to correct some of it. To correct more, you'll need to replace the bushings in the lower arm (very big job).
The pump should drop to 20-24 psi in a 1/2 hour, then hold for the afternoon. If it's not, double check all of your hose connections.
Congrats. |
Okay, thank you! I will get a new wheel cylinder then, I do have new shoes but I didn’t want to put them on since the brake fluid would likely destroy them.
When you say the window scrapers is a big job, how long does it usually take? When I did the drivers side door, it only took me three hours. Should I document it more? The shocks for the rear were Monroe gas charged shocks, I should have sent them back but I was in the though, “ it’s a brand new part, it can’t be bad” I will probably hold off on replacing bushings for a while, I could do it but it’s not horrible enough yet.
On the fuel pressure, I don’t believe it’s a line. It drops instantly to zero after I turn it off. I’m guessing a stuck pressure regulator in the fuel pump. Could it be the rear pressure regulator in the engine? And is it just that it may vapor lock if it doesn’t hold pressure, or why does it need to hold pressure after the car is off? Thanks!
Edit: for stock pumps, is the single in out style pump or the wet type pump better, I have both types of extra ones. |
Most are upgrading to the single in/out style pump found on 85-89 Ford Rangers or an Airtex E2000 etc.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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Yes, the door window seal replacement seems to be a little tricky. Maybe it’s me but I remember it going easy when I replaced the the window and scraper on the drivers door. Maybe it was easier because the window was already missing in the disassembly process  Qldelsie, what were you running into with the issue on your door? For me the most frustrating part on my car is the turn signal switch. I’m just very perplexed as to how for some reason it’s such a hard job and I ran into no issues with it and got it done quick and easy last time for the left door. Also, what year do you use for the rubber scraper? Does a bug one work?
I probably should get a new fuel pump. I have a ton of the original ones I found at the junk yard but I can’t find my parts bag for them so I will probably get a new one and at least carry it as a spare. So does keeping pressure keep the engine from vapor locking?
Also, I posted the question up in another thread but what is a good shock as the Monroe rear shock absorbers were garbage from new. They are doing nothing other than slowing me down currently  But the fronts are fine and they are Monroe also.
I ordered a new rear wheel cylinder, it’s starting to go really bad real quick. A few week ago when I opened the drum it looked like a small leak and I was going to work on fixing it. The last few days it’s been getting worse. I noticed wet spots on my rim from brake fluid and today there was a puddle
_________________
1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Qldelsie
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2019
Posts: 518
Location: Queensland Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Ceckert64 wrote: |
Qldelsie, what were you running into with the issue on your door? For me the most frustrating part on my car is the turn signal switch. I’m just very perplexed as to how for some reason it’s such a hard job and I ran into no issues with it and got it done quick and easy last time for the left door. Also, what year do you use for the rubber scraper? Does a bug one work?
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Parts wise I got the aluminium trim and bailey channel (hey, thats what I was told it was called ! Never heard of that name till I went looking for it on the VW forums !!!!) from a local Aussie company who sources a lot (most ?) of their parts from ISP, CIP etc etc. Their prices are good because they bring in shipments by sea freight in a container, so much cheaper than airfreighting from California. Just have to order in advance ! BUT, like many other VW suppliers, they focus mainly on Beetles and Vans - Us Type 3's fall between the two ! Anyway, my Aluminium trim cam from Brasil and it turned out that the predrilled holes in it which should line up with holes in the window frame and where the felt channel clips fit in, didn't line up. So having got trim, inner scraper and vent window (quarter light to us !!) in place, I had to take it all out again to drill new holes in the ali trim. Twice (don't ask !). Then the correct Type 3 inner scraper is not available, so reading around, on here and elsewhere, people said to use the bus scraper, which has the "flip up" at the rear end, but needs to be trimmed length wise to fit. Did that, but of course the wire clip slots in that rubber are different for the bus, so you have to cut new slots. Did that. But then I had a LOT of problem getting those inner clips as well as the outer trim clips to click into place - I am not only an old fart, but also, when I had cancer a few years ago, I lost a lot of strength in my muscles, in this case my fingers are just not strong enough to keep clicking these things into place in the narrow space available - I would get some in, but never all at the same time !!
By the way, since it is the INNER scraper, all it does is scrape moisture off the INSIDE of the window, so (IMHO) is relatively unimportant moisture wise. So if you use a 100% flat scraper (ie without the "flip up at the back) it is kind of a minor point.
Then it was time to fit the felt / bailey channel. Straight one was good - but too short by several cms. Longer wide piece was OK, but try to make that 90 deg angle was impossible - the channel just crimped up. (I learned yesterday that you can make some cuts in the back of the channel, which then allows it to bend more smoothly.) Anyway, it was also too short. The local supplier found some longer lengths of each, and sent them over - OK on the straight one, but on the longer one the whole channel was way too big to fit in the window. The professional who is doing them for me next week said he would ONLY do them if I ordered a new window kit from ISP West. Did that, at GREAT expense (air freight etc), and the ali trims they sent are identical to the ones I already have, from Brasil - Same packaging and all. The felt / bailey channel looks promising, and is pre-shaped at the 90 deg bend (  ), but the inner scrapers are like nothing I have ever seen before ! Hopefully between the originals, the ISP West parts, and all the other bits I have, we can make up two doors / windows that work !!
I think you get my drift. After 4 or 5 days, by the time I had taken everything in and out several times, blown my stack 10 times, and drunk all the beer in my fridge, I called it a day and went looking for someone cleverer than I !!
Re my turn signal switch, mine was so cracked and broken that I got a new one from M&T Manufacturing, and the only thing I have had a problem with is the tiny clips that normally slot into the wiring at the bottom of the column. After waiting 3 months for tiny clips to arrive, they were wrong, so instead of using that plastic frame which is standard on my 1970, I have used 1/2 size regular spade clips (which fit down the slot in the column), and just clipped them individually to the correct wires in the loom. Haven't plugged the battery in to test them yet though !!
Apologies if a little off-track, but hopefully this info will help you understand some of the parts issues before you spend your money on the wrong bits.
Giles |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Qldelsie wrote: |
| Ceckert64 wrote: |
Qldelsie, what were you running into with the issue on your door? For me the most frustrating part on my car is the turn signal switch. I’m just very perplexed as to how for some reason it’s such a hard job and I ran into no issues with it and got it done quick and easy last time for the left door. Also, what year do you use for the rubber scraper? Does a bug one work?
|
Parts wise I got the aluminium trim and bailey channel (hey, thats what I was told it was called ! Never heard of that name till I went looking for it on the VW forums !!!!) from a local Aussie company who sources a lot (most ?) of their parts from ISP, CIP etc etc. Their prices are good because they bring in shipments by sea freight in a container, so much cheaper than airfreighting from California. Just have to order in advance ! BUT, like many other VW suppliers, they focus mainly on Beetles and Vans - Us Type 3's fall between the two ! Anyway, my Aluminium trim cam from Brasil and it turned out that the predrilled holes in it which should line up with holes in the window frame and where the felt channel clips fit in, didn't line up. So having got trim, inner scraper and vent window (quarter light to us !!) in place, I had to take it all out again to drill new holes in the ali trim. Twice (don't ask !). Then the correct Type 3 inner scraper is not available, so reading around, on here and elsewhere, people said to use the bus scraper, which has the "flip up" at the rear end, but needs to be trimmed length wise to fit. Did that, but of course the wire clip slots in that rubber are different for the bus, so you have to cut new slots. Did that. But then I had a LOT of problem getting those inner clips as well as the outer trim clips to click into place - I am not only an old fart, but also, when I had cancer a few years ago, I lost a lot of strength in my muscles, in this case my fingers are just not strong enough to keep clicking these things into place in the narrow space available - I would get some in, but never all at the same time !!
By the way, since it is the INNER scraper, all it does is scrape moisture off the INSIDE of the window, so (IMHO) is relatively unimportant moisture wise. So if you use a 100% flat scraper (ie without the "flip up at the back) it is kind of a minor point.
Then it was time to fit the felt / bailey channel. Straight one was good - but too short by several cms. Longer wide piece was OK, but try to make that 90 deg angle was impossible - the channel just crimped up. (I learned yesterday that you can make some cuts in the back of the channel, which then allows it to bend more smoothly.) Anyway, it was also too short. The local supplier found some longer lengths of each, and sent them over - OK on the straight one, but on the longer one the whole channel was way too big to fit in the window. The professional who is doing them for me next week said he would ONLY do them if I ordered a new window kit from ISP West. Did that, at GREAT expense (air freight etc), and the ali trims they sent are identical to the ones I already have, from Brasil - Same packaging and all. The felt / bailey channel looks promising, and is pre-shaped at the 90 deg bend ( ), but the inner scrapers are like nothing I have ever seen before ! Hopefully between the originals, the ISP West parts, and all the other bits I have, we can make up two doors / windows that work !!
I think you get my drift. After 4 or 5 days, by the time I had taken everything in and out several times, blown my stack 10 times, and drunk all the beer in my fridge, I called it a day and went looking for someone cleverer than I !!
Re my turn signal switch, mine was so cracked and broken that I got a new one from M&T Manufacturing, and the only thing I have had a problem with is the tiny clips that normally slot into the wiring at the bottom of the column. After waiting 3 months for tiny clips to arrive, they were wrong, so instead of using that plastic frame which is standard on my 1970, I have used 1/2 size regular spade clips (which fit down the slot in the column), and just clipped them individually to the correct wires in the loom. Haven't plugged the battery in to test them yet though !!
Apologies if a little off-track, but hopefully this info will help you understand some of the parts issues before you spend your money on the wrong bits.
Giles |
Yup, you've found the #1 pitfall of owning a type 3. No parts really dedicated to our cars. Buses yes, bugs yes, Ghia's maybe.Type 3s no.
Sounds like you've found ALL of the pit falls you could have with the doors.
I ran into ALL of them while doing a 69 Square last summer. The wing windows were the worst for me, as I never did get them like they're supposed to fit (held the glass open), but the owner wanted them changed, as the old ones were brittle and hard as stone. On the inner scrapers, yes you use the bus pieces, but re-use the type 3 wires as they line up with the holes in the doors. As for the outers, some are using bus inners, but I feel they're a little short on the leg you rivet thru. I'd be more tempted to use late bug outers, just for the rubber piece, but someone is making dedicated rubber pieces (sold separately), which might be the way to go instead.
The glass run channel is another thing that never used to cause a problem, but a change in materials really messed that up. While they might have been about 3 to 4 inches too short, they could be contoured to fit the upper corner of the door without a problem. The newer pieces just fold up like a piece of cheese, and make a mess when it starts coming apart on the glass (the rubber likes to ball up with moving the glass). Somebody really screwed up with change, as it makes those parts completely unusable. Don't buy them. Get the cloth version instead, if not reuse your old ones instead, as they'll fit better.
And the replacement clips (for the glass run channels) are longer than the originals, so you have to watch where you put them.
Speaking of clips, those that hold the window trim piece in place fall out easily, and get lost. The replacements are wider, and don't fit the doors (the slot holes are too narrow). The OE ones fit correctly.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
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DQDan
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2016
Posts: 351
Location: Cleveland OH
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:24 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Super congrats to the OP, our fastest resto by a 15 year old EVER! |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:37 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| Qldelsie wrote: |
| Ceckert64 wrote: |
Qldelsie, what were you running into with the issue on your door? For me the most frustrating part on my car is the turn signal switch. I’m just very perplexed as to how for some reason it’s such a hard job and I ran into no issues with it and got it done quick and easy last time for the left door. Also, what year do you use for the rubber scraper? Does a bug one work?
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Parts wise I got the aluminium trim and bailey channel (hey, thats what I was told it was called ! Never heard of that name till I went looking for it on the VW forums !!!!) from a local Aussie company who sources a lot (most ?) of their parts from ISP, CIP etc etc. Their prices are good because they bring in shipments by sea freight in a container, so much cheaper than airfreighting from California. Just have to order in advance ! BUT, like many other VW suppliers, they focus mainly on Beetles and Vans - Us Type 3's fall between the two ! Anyway, my Aluminium trim cam from Brasil and it turned out that the predrilled holes in it which should line up with holes in the window frame and where the felt channel clips fit in, didn't line up. So having got trim, inner scraper and vent window (quarter light to us !!) in place, I had to take it all out again to drill new holes in the ali trim. Twice (don't ask !). Then the correct Type 3 inner scraper is not available, so reading around, on here and elsewhere, people said to use the bus scraper, which has the "flip up" at the rear end, but needs to be trimmed length wise to fit. Did that, but of course the wire clip slots in that rubber are different for the bus, so you have to cut new slots. Did that. But then I had a LOT of problem getting those inner clips as well as the outer trim clips to click into place - I am not only an old fart, but also, when I had cancer a few years ago, I lost a lot of strength in my muscles, in this case my fingers are just not strong enough to keep clicking these things into place in the narrow space available - I would get some in, but never all at the same time !!
By the way, since it is the INNER scraper, all it does is scrape moisture off the INSIDE of the window, so (IMHO) is relatively unimportant moisture wise. So if you use a 100% flat scraper (ie without the "flip up at the back) it is kind of a minor point.
Then it was time to fit the felt / bailey channel. Straight one was good - but too short by several cms. Longer wide piece was OK, but try to make that 90 deg angle was impossible - the channel just crimped up. (I learned yesterday that you can make some cuts in the back of the channel, which then allows it to bend more smoothly.) Anyway, it was also too short. The local supplier found some longer lengths of each, and sent them over - OK on the straight one, but on the longer one the whole channel was way too big to fit in the window. The professional who is doing them for me next week said he would ONLY do them if I ordered a new window kit from ISP West. Did that, at GREAT expense (air freight etc), and the ali trims they sent are identical to the ones I already have, from Brasil - Same packaging and all. The felt / bailey channel looks promising, and is pre-shaped at the 90 deg bend ( ), but the inner scrapers are like nothing I have ever seen before ! Hopefully between the originals, the ISP West parts, and all the other bits I have, we can make up two doors / windows that work !!
I think you get my drift. After 4 or 5 days, by the time I had taken everything in and out several times, blown my stack 10 times, and drunk all the beer in my fridge, I called it a day and went looking for someone cleverer than I !!
Re my turn signal switch, mine was so cracked and broken that I got a new one from M&T Manufacturing, and the only thing I have had a problem with is the tiny clips that normally slot into the wiring at the bottom of the column. After waiting 3 months for tiny clips to arrive, they were wrong, so instead of using that plastic frame which is standard on my 1970, I have used 1/2 size regular spade clips (which fit down the slot in the column), and just clipped them individually to the correct wires in the loom. Haven't plugged the battery in to test them yet though !!
Apologies if a little off-track, but hopefully this info will help you understand some of the parts issues before you spend your money on the wrong bits.
Giles |
Yup, you've found the #1 pitfall of owning a type 3. No parts really dedicated to our cars. Buses yes, bugs yes, Ghia's maybe.Type 3s no.
Sounds like you've found ALL of the pit falls you could have with the doors.
I ran into ALL of them while doing a 69 Square last summer. The wing windows were the worst for me, as I never did get them like they're supposed to fit (held the glass open), but the owner wanted them changed, as the old ones were brittle and hard as stone. On the inner scrapers, yes you use the bus pieces, but re-use the type 3 wires as they line up with the holes in the doors. As for the outers, some are using bus inners, but I feel they're a little short on the leg you rivet thru. I'd be more tempted to use late bug outers, just for the rubber piece, but someone is making dedicated rubber pieces (sold separately), which might be the way to go instead.
The glass run channel is another thing that never used to cause a problem, but a change in materials really messed that up. While they might have been about 3 to 4 inches too short, they could be contoured to fit the upper corner of the door without a problem. The newer pieces just fold up like a piece of cheese, and make a mess when it starts coming apart on the glass (the rubber likes to ball up with moving the glass). Somebody really screwed up with change, as it makes those parts completely unusable. Don't buy them. Get the cloth version instead, if not reuse your old ones instead, as they'll fit better.
And the replacement clips (for the glass run channels) are longer than the originals, so you have to watch where you put them.
Speaking of clips, those that hold the window trim piece in place fall out easily, and get lost. The replacements are wider, and don't fit the doors (the slot holes are too narrow). The OE ones fit correctly. |
Okay, I definitely get the struggle, I had used all original pieces when I did the left door. I knew new parts weren’t great but I didn’t realize they were that horrible. Most of the time it seems using questionable original parts is better than new parts. Good luck with the doors Qldelsie, that sound horrible. I see why it’s so hard. Thankfully the rest of my door seals are in good enough shape except my outer scraper. You can use a outer bus scraper for the outer scraper correct. For parts, at least we have more available than type 4 people.
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1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Ceckert64
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Ceckert64
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Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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Yesterday I did a bit of work. I lubed the accelerator cable, door locks, hinges, front beam. Then, the real fun thing  so my left rear wheel cylinder had a small leak, but then it just let go. I went out to work on it and found a puddle of brake fluid, great. So I knew I had a bug front one that looks pretty similar to T3 style. I noticed that the bleed valve and the incoming line orientation were flipped for it. I tried to put it on, but the threads on it were a closer to the cylinder then on the T3. But they both have the same bore. I took apart the old original ATE one from Joann, I found the one piston was seized outward, so I had to use the press to get it out. Then I cleaned the bore with sand paper and the pistons. There was a little pitting on the bore but not horrible. So I used the rubber pieces from the bug front and used the original wheel cylinder and pistons. I bled it and then took it for a road test, the brake pedal had to go super far down before working. So I went back and the brakes had to be adjusted a ton. The reason was because now the shoes were compressing in with the pistons a lot and going far away from the drum because the one was previously seized out. I adjusted it and the had brake works a lot better now too and that was one of my issues that affected the hand brake. I still need to replace pads but I will do that after I get the new wheel cylinder. I took it for a road test and the brake pedal engaged a lot soon than it did the first time. I also don’t think it’s leaking anymore but it’s hard to tell because everything got soaked in brake fluid. Here are some pictures, the back side of the rims was completely soaked, the front had some coming in.
Here is a comparison of the bug and T3 one.
Then Joann’s after rebuild.
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1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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old_man
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:21 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Dude, JACKSTANDS! At the very least throw the wheel under there as a safety measure. Your too young to have a car fall on your foot and crush your ankle or something. |
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Ceckert64
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Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:23 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| old_man wrote: |
| Dude, JACKSTANDS! At the very least throw the wheel under there as a safety measure. Your too young to have a car fall on your foot and crush your ankle or something. |
Yes, I should of. If I work under the car I use a jack stand for sure and block the wheels and have them all on, if a wheel has to be off the ground. Or I just have it with the hand brake on with it completely on the ground on the wheels since it has enough ground clearance for me to slide under.
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1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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| Ceckert64 wrote: |
Okay, I definitely get the struggle, I had used all original pieces when I did the left door. I knew new parts weren’t great but I didn’t realize they were that horrible. I see why it’s so hard. Thankfully the rest of my door seals are in good enough shape except my outer scraper. You can use a outer bus scraper for the outer scraper correct. For parts, at least we have more available than type 4 people. |
Yes, but it's not as easy as it sounds. I'd probably see if ISP has any dedicated rubber bits available yet. If not I'd get a hold of Mario at T3D. The right parts make the job go that much less painful.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Ceckert64
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Ceckert64
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Posts: 1957
Location: Manitowoc, WI
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: Re: My 1970 Elm Green Squareback (Joann) |
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Not much to update, Joann’s running great, I’m getting closer to having put 3,000 miles on so far, I’ve just had to replace a headlight and the windshield washer hose since the last update, it blew out on me while driving leaking down onto my leg  it only took the washer line blowing out 3-4 times before I finally replaced it 
The only thing is that when I let it sit overnight and start it up early in the morning, the engine sometimes runs really rough and jerky for the first 1/4 mile then it runs like fine again, is it just warming up? It’s when I’m first accelerating it almost feels like I’m lugging the car but I’m not. It’s only happened 3
2-3 time though. Once I get up 35mph it goes away and it never happens again on the rest of the drive. Is it just the quirks of 50 year old FI or a bigger issue? Thanks!
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1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Sierra Yellow Tin Top Westfalia Camper
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop |
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