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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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 Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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Thanks for all the information. Just came in from trying to clean the intake. Still working on it.
Yes, I do need to get one of those manuals. You aren't kidding, they aren't cheap.
I looked at the back of my Shroud. I don't see a throttle ring. I see a thermostat ring and the crank on Ebay. I don't know what these connect to and what else I need to complete the thermostat set up, or how it even is connected.
Also, I looked up in the tin for a thermostat. Is there supposed to be one similar to the 1600 DPs? I did not see anything like that on this motor.
I do have a stock air cleaner, but there is no place on the oil inlet to connect the hose to. I have another oil inlet base with the tube to connect a hose. I will put that on the car.
Thanks again. I really appreciate all this information.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Fairly correct engine. Wrong year carb and aftermarket fuel pump.
1961 did not use the full loop or shepherds hook vacuum line, but VW did find just using the flex hose was a bad idea.
This one has long full loop line with much later carb:
Shepherds hook:
Short loop:
Shows most of them:
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
Also, I looked up in the tin for a thermostat. Is there supposed to be one similar to the 1600 DPs? I did not see anything like that on this motor. |
Not sure you mean by the "tin", maybe the thermostat bracket??
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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From the type 2 parts manual:
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
I looked at the back of my Shroud. I don't see a throttle ring. I see a thermostat ring and the crank on Ebay. I don't know what these connect to and what else I need to complete the thermostat set up, or how it even is connected. |
Should be the front of the shroud, as in closer to the front bumper.
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flyboy161
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Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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Wow, so it appears I'm missing all the parts for a thermostat. I know people take thermostats off and there is a lot of discussion on whether it is harmful or not, but it looks like if I want to put a thermostat on this motor it will cost me a couple hundred bucks.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
From the type 2 parts manual:
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flyboy161
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Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2091
Location: Perry, GA
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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Starting to wonder if I should just rebuild a motor to 1600. Or keep this one stock with stock case and 6v.
| flyboy161 wrote: |
Thermostat Bracket for 40hp stale air motor
The mount hole for the case is not slotted like it is on a fresh air motor |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
| Wow, so it appears I'm missing all the parts for a thermostat. I know people take thermostats off and there is a lot of discussion on whether it is harmful or not, but it looks like if I want to put a thermostat on this motor it will cost me a couple hundred bucks. |
Should be a lot less if you again shop around.
Again by searching the forums for the words "Throttle Ring", and check marking the "Titles Only" box.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
You need to know the difference between the 36 and 40 HP versions of those parts.
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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This is the oldest VW I've had, so many new parts for me to figure out.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
| Wow, so it appears I'm missing all the parts for a thermostat. I know people take thermostats off and there is a lot of discussion on whether it is harmful or not, but it looks like if I want to put a thermostat on this motor it will cost me a couple hundred bucks. |
Should be a lot less if you again shop around.
Again by searching the forums for the words "Throttle Ring", and check marking the "Titles Only" box.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
You need to know the difference between the 36 and 40 HP versions of those parts. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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Go thru the
"Beetle FAQ and 1958-1967 Beetle Info available on TheSamba"
at the top of the forum for the:
"36hp vs 40hp warm-up parts differences"
Lots of other good info in the FAQs, and a must to go thru before posting new threads.
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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So just to confirm, I have a 40hp, correct for a 61?
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
| Wow, so it appears I'm missing all the parts for a thermostat. I know people take thermostats off and there is a lot of discussion on whether it is harmful or not, but it looks like if I want to put a thermostat on this motor it will cost me a couple hundred bucks. |
Should be a lot less if you again shop around.
Again by searching the forums for the words "Throttle Ring", and check marking the "Titles Only" box.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
You need to know the difference between the 36 and 40 HP versions of those parts. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
| Starting to wonder if I should just rebuild a motor to 1600. Or keep this one stock with stock case and 6v. |
Could always do both!
It is your VW, but personally feel a 40HP is a great engine for the type 1s VW if in fit form. Down the road if you rebuild the 40HP you can upgrade for a bit more get up and go with the Big Bore 40 HP P&Cs, going from 77mm to 83mm. Which in turn ups the compression. Either way you get much better MPG than a 1600 if you are not trying to drag race it.
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
So just to confirm, I have a 36hp, correct for a 61? I'll have to run the block VIN to be sure.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
| Wow, so it appears I'm missing all the parts for a thermostat. I know people take thermostats off and there is a lot of discussion on whether it is harmful or not, but it looks like if I want to put a thermostat on this motor it will cost me a couple hundred bucks. |
Should be a lot less if you again shop around.
Again by searching the forums for the words "Throttle Ring", and check marking the "Titles Only" box.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
You need to know the difference between the 36 and 40 HP versions of those parts. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
| So just to confirm, I have a 40hp, correct for a 61? |
If it has the separate generator stand from the engine case then it is not the standard 36 HP engine. Any later wider 1300/1500/1600 the engine tin and especially the stale air heater boxes will not fit the wider engines. Big give away is how the intake attaches to the heads, 40 HP viewed from the rear come straight down, where the later engines the intake bends slightly inward.
Course could be someone dropped in a 69mm or more stroke crankshaft and bigger than stock P&C. Even boring the case out for 1600 or bigger P&Cs. Only way to truly know is to take a head off to measure piston size and stroke.
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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I would like to keep it original, since that is the current state it is in. Just a bit overwhelming trying to figure out why I'm having the problems I'm having, and then trying to decide if I should rebuild it because of .015 end play, and now finding the correct parts for the thermostat.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
| Starting to wonder if I should just rebuild a motor to 1600. Or keep this one stock with stock case and 6v. |
Could always do both!
It is your VW, but personally feel a 40HP is a great engine for the type 1s VW if in fit form. Down the road if you rebuild the 40HP you can upgrade for a bit more get up and go with the Big Bore 40 HP P&Cs, going from 77mm to 83mm. Which in turn ups the compression. Either way you get much better MPG than a 1600 if you are not trying to drag race it. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
| I would like to keep it original, since that is the current state it is in. Just a bit overwhelming trying to figure out why I'm having the problems I'm having, and then trying to decide if I should rebuild it because of .015 end play, and now finding the correct parts for the thermostat. |
You can have just the same problem with a 1600cc.
Matter of fact there is another recent fellow who just pulled his 1835 due to engine problems. Then installed the old 1600, but has same problem. Probably due to the distributor he also switched from the 1835 to the 1600. He would have been better to diagnose and work out the problem!
Speaking of diagnosing, have you checked the color of your spark at the plugs?
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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I just put new ones in today, but the others were black (burning rich).
Looks like the Thermostat ring is the same for both 40hp and 36hp. I am not even sure which motor I have. I have to look tomorrow.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
| I would like to keep it original, since that is the current state it is in. Just a bit overwhelming trying to figure out why I'm having the problems I'm having, and then trying to decide if I should rebuild it because of .015 end play, and now finding the correct parts for the thermostat. |
You can have just the same problem with a 1600cc.
Matter of fact there is another recent fellow who just pulled his 1835 due to engine problems. Then installed the old 1600, but has same problem. Probably due to the distributor he also switched from the 1835 to the 1600. He would have been better to diagnose and work out the problem!
Speaking of diagnosing, have you checked the color of your spark at the plugs? |
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txasylum
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2004
Posts: 389
Location: Boyers, PA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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Okay, sounds like I have the 40hp. The stand for the generator is separate. It is not part of the case. And the intakes do come straight down.
But again, from what I read the only real difference on the thermostat is the rod that connects the thermostat to the lever.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| txasylum wrote: |
| So just to confirm, I have a 40hp, correct for a 61? |
If it has the separate generator stand from the engine case then it is not the standard 36 HP engine. Any later wider 1300/1500/1600 the engine tin and especially the stale air heater boxes will not fit the wider engines. Big give away is how the intake attaches to the heads, 40 HP viewed from the rear come straight down, where the later engines the intake bends slightly inward.
Course could be someone dropped in a 69mm or more stroke crankshaft and bigger than stock P&C. Even boring the case out for 1600 or bigger P&Cs. Only way to truly know is to take a head off to measure piston size and stroke. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24737
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Carb jetting? Car runs rough |
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| txasylum wrote: |
I just put new ones in today, but the others were black (burning rich).
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Understood, but not talking soot color of the plugs. Talking the color of the SPARK. Weak spark will have a different color from strong spark.
Too much fuel and weak spark can cause the engine to spit and sputter.
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