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Leave or remove lead from body?
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latinporsche911
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:07 pm    Post subject: Leave or remove lead from body? Reply with quote

I have read that lead was used to cover the nails that secure the wood to the body, but that area (where nails use to be) is not covered with lead now. Just some areas around, below and sides.
Should I remove the lead and work whatever issues there may be underneath or leave it as is and work around it.
Thanks

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Last edited by latinporsche911 on Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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leowagen
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

long time ago, bodywork was done with lead instead of bondo. Better bonding power, no rust, no falling down due to moisture.... downside: higher technical knowledge needed, more time consuming, thus higher cost. I would also say that today this would be considered posinous...
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makin_vw
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

as stated, leading is a old technique but its also one of the best when done right... i would leave it personally as i like how much better it holds up over time... my 2cents..
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aa390392
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

Do you think that lead was used at the Karmen factory?
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latinporsche911
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

Thanks guys for your words.
Yes, I have read here on the forum (specifically in the convertible one) that lead was used at factory. But I'm not sure what others have done, if they leave it or remove it.
I am more inclined (as makin_vw stated) to leave it.... less work for me and it seems to be done well. Just wanted to know if it has to be removed or not
Thanks
R
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finster
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

aa390392 wrote:
Do you think that lead was used at the Karmen factory?


Yes, especially to cover the panel joins on ghias.

Ps Karmann factory
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Lars B
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

The lead was applied at the Karman factory.
And my theory is that they nailed the wood to the body first.
And the leaded the welds and some of the over the nails.
On my 56 Vert some of the nail's was leaded over, but not all, same as yours.

SO the lead over the nail to keep them in, is not the whole (true) story.

This picture is from Karman Factory.leading a 1959 Vert.
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Taken from this article.

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latinporsche911
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

Wow.. great information and pictures.
Makes sense now as to where I see the lead having been applied.
Thanks Lars B!
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jason
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

The lead does hide rust. Judge how bad your car is rusted and decide if you think you should remove.

That is if there is a seam beneath it. Moisture can get behind it then. Itís rusty where the nails were, moisture got behind it.

They nailed the wood then leaded the dents. If they were nice with the hammering, no or little lead.
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aa390392
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

Am glad to see the jig for the frame of the top. I beleive there was a load of tweaking of the metal in this process. Am thinking no 2 early tops are exactly the same.
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latinporsche911
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

jason wrote:
The lead does hide rust. Judge how bad your car is rusted and decide if you think you should remove.

That is if there is a seam beneath it. Moisture can get behind it then. Itís rusty where the nails were, moisture got behind it.

They nailed the wood then leaded the dents. If they were nice with the hammering, no or little lead.



That was my confusion and concern. As best as I could see around the leaded areas and any opening I could peek into, I didnt see major or hardly any dents and definitely no rust through. So I was confused why the lead. I tried a magnet and the attraction was almost the same between surrounding metal and leaded covering.
The holes left, after extracting the nails weren't that bad. 3 nails broke, due to rust in nails but metal was ok...only surface rust. Nothing cancerous.

Makes sense using the lead on the sides where it seems to have a seem (from what I could see from the inside, rear quarter panels). No where else was lead used in the bug. Just those areas
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

finster wrote:
aa390392 wrote:
Do you think that lead was used at the Karmen factory?


Yes, especially to cover the panel joins on ghias.

Ps Karmann factory


Might want to check that. Iím pretty certain it was pewter (harder material), not lead that Karmann used. Certainly on the Ghia.
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Lars B
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

jason wrote:
The lead does hide rust. Judge how bad your car is rusted and decide if you think you should remove.

That is if there is a seam beneath it. Moisture can get behind it then. Itís rusty where the nails were, moisture got behind it.

They nailed the wood then leaded the dents. If they were nice with the hammering, no or little lead.


Can you show any example on areas the have rusted under the lead?
Google cant find any pictures of that.

I have never seen any rust under lead i have removed on my cars.
So i have stopped removing it, if i do not have to.
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finster
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body????? Reply with quote

bobnorman wrote:
finster wrote:
aa390392 wrote:
Do you think that lead was used at the Karmen factory?

Yes, especially to cover the panel joins on ghias.


Might want to check that. Iím pretty certain it was pewter (harder material), not lead that Karmann used. Certainly on the Ghia.


I stand corrected, I hadn't seen the 'english pewter' references before. I notice the article above calls it solder (lotzinn) which may have lead added.
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D. Haviland
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Leave or remove lead from body? Reply with quote

Early Karmann convertibles were made from sedans. They cut the roof off and heavily modified the body with reinforcements and fitting new upper pieces to the rear quarters and doors. The "lead" covers the seams.
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