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73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil
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mjust
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 8:41 am    Post subject: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

Hello, looks like the car isnt turning over. It started this morning as normal but ran an errand came out and it wouldnt start, but it bump started fine. Think its the starter....we replaced the battery a week or so ago, and rebuilt the carb yesterday. Any ideas?


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Last edited by mjust on Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video Reply with quote

mjust wrote:
ran an errand came out and it wouldnt start, but it jump started fine.

Clicks when trying to start, but jump starts fine???? That's a diagnosis of a low battery.

1. I'd be interested in the voltage measured across the battery terminals when it's clicking and not spinning the engine.

2. I'd also be interested in the voltage across the battery terminals once the VW is jump started and the jumper cables removed, at about 2000-2500 rpm. This is a test of the charging system.

3. When the battery was replaced, were all the connections clean, shiny, and tight? Ever clean the terminals at the starter solenoid.


mjust wrote:
Think its the starter....we replaced the battery a week or so ago, and rebuilt the carb yesterday. Any ideas?

You have a "starter fails to spin/crank the engine" issue, not a "starter spins the engine fine but engine won't start" issue. That rules out anything to do with the carburetor.

And since you can jump start readily, I doubt that it's the starter.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
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mjust
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video Reply with quote

I think I might have misworded something according to my son. It didn't get jumpstarted but we bump started it. We pushed it, put it in 2nd and popped the clutch. I am going to change the wording in the post with an update so there is no future confusion.
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mjust
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video Reply with quote

We also just looked at it and there appears to be oil leaking from the ignition coil.
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Dusty1
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

First diagnostic with anything electric / electronic that's not functioning normally:

Check all the connections.

The advanced program:

People who "checked all the connections" often ignore the ground connections.


If you think the coil has a problem replace it with a known good one.


Diagnosing by parts swapping:

Always use "known good" parts. That means if a part was just working on your other VW it should work on this one. Otherwise parts grabbed from your ubiquitous "parts box" might add additional problems to the mix. Used ignition parts are notorious for this as are used carburetors and fuel pumps.

.
.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video Reply with quote

mjust wrote:
I think I might have misworded something according to my son. It didn't get jumpstarted but we bump started it. We pushed it, put it in 2nd and popped the clutch. I am going to change the wording in the post with an update so there is no future confusion.

That's why REAL, FACTUAL information is needed, we're not there looking over your shoulder !!!!

You first need to get the engine to crank, and then you can worry about the coil. See what I posted before:

Cusser wrote:
mjust wrote:
ran an errand came out and it wouldnt start, but it jump started fine.

Clicks when trying to start seems like low battery.

1. I'd be interested in the voltage measured across the battery terminals when it's clicking and not spinning the engine.

2. I'd also be interested in the voltage across the battery terminals once the VW is jump started and the jumper cables removed, at about 2000-2500 rpm. This is a test of the charging system.

3. When the battery was replaced, were all the connections clean, shiny, and tight? Ever clean the terminals at the starter solenoid.




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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

mjust wrote:
...we replaced the battery a week or so ago, and rebuilt the carb yesterday. Any ideas?


My day job is as an incident manager. One fundamental point when troubleshooting... suspect the most recent changes as the likely cause.
Since you were able to get it running once you push started it we know the carb is not preventing the engine from running. Also the carb would not prevent the engine from cranking. That leaves the starter or the battery. Since you recently worked on the battery... start in that area?

Are your battery cables/terminals in good condition? When I replaced the battery in my '75 I discovered that more than 50% of the contact surface of the clamp had corroded away. You couldn't tell unless you removed the terminal from the battery post.
Are the wires running into the terminal clean and free from grease/oxidation? Loose connections? Did you forget to tighten down the battery terminal clamps?
Maybe you touched the thick red wire which has a junction below the left rear seat? This is the #50 wire that runs to the starter solenoid. If this junction came loose/disconnected it would prevent the starter from cranking.

You could also take the battery to the FLAPS to be charged tested. A DOA new battery is not unheard of.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

Ashman - mjust has not responded to my three questions that I posted like 30 hours ago, and re-posted this morning, so I feel no pressing desire to provide help to him......
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mjust
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Ashman - mjust has not responded to my three questions that I posted like 30 hours ago, and re-posted this morning, so I feel no pressing desire to provide help to him......


Sorry, I apologize for not responding directly. I thought I answered the questions by saying I had the description as to the problem wrong, and when finding out that I wrongly described "jumping the car" and "bump starting" the car, I thought that mixing those two up would invalidate the diagnosis. Sorry about that.
To give you a better idea of what's going on.
My son is 16 and owns the car. I post questions here from time to time to help him. He has school and a part time job so he is unable to work on the car every day especially during the week. I work as well but this is my sons car and while I will help, this is his project. I do let him know when there is a response and we both read and appreciate all the help.
To answer your questions...we don't have a voltage monitor so I cant give you the info of the voltages...we/he is also going to check out the battery and all of the connections, making sure they are clean, shiny and tight this weekend.
Thanks for your help
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mjust
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

Thanks ashman40. We are going to check out the terminals this weekend and hopefully its an easy fix like that. We will also check that battery and take it to O'reilly Auto, where we bought it to make sure its good. Thanks for the reply!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

Dusty1 wrote:
First diagnostic with anything electric / electronic that's not functioning normally:

Check all the connections.

The advanced program:

People who "checked all the connections" often ignore the ground connections.


If you think the coil has a problem replace it with a known good one.


Diagnosing by parts swapping:

Always use "known good" parts. That means if a part was just working on your other VW it should work on this one. Otherwise parts grabbed from your ubiquitous "parts box" might add additional problems to the mix. Used ignition parts are notorious for this as are used carburetors and fuel pumps.

.
.


Thats the plan this weekend! I will update as to progress! Thanks for the help!
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

mjust wrote:
we don't have a voltage monitor so I cant give you the info of the voltages...

Then how the @$^&$#^*%$$$%&%(#$@@#%# are we supposed to help you, when you won't shell out $15 or less for a multimeter, indispensable for automotive and home repairs ????????????????????????
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

I’m gonna agree with Cusser (but without all the extra “special characters” Surprised ). If you are going to do any maintenance other than just changing oil you really need to buy a digital multimeter. It doesn't have to be super fancy or expensive. Just something that can read voltage (DC) and resistance (ohms).
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---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: 73 Super not turning over...with video UPDATE on wording and oil Reply with quote

What's easier way to start a fire? Some tools are fundamental.

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or

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
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