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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:18 pm Post subject: Column Rebuild |
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Digging in to rebuilding a column, it seems that there isn't one place where all info can be found.
Since I'm a newb to this, thought I'd try to compile what's what with these things.
Additionally, it -seems- that my column has never been taken apart from new.
So here we go..
Hoping our experts can chime in, and we can get one place for the whole story.
After digging around on the site here,
These threads all had good info:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=608438&highlight=column
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=584876
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=480
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548050&highlight=column
Big thanks to all of our posters here who have contributed their time and knowledge.
Wiring diagram, for reference:
First thing I learned, is that you're best off getting the column off and free from the car.
This is easy and straightforward; undo the bolts and take things apart.
Additionally, remove the pinch bolt and slide the column head free from the tube.
The spade terminals pull free to allow the wires to be disconnected from the wiring block,
Which is held with these two screws:
Once the wheel and horn whatnot is off,
There is a half-clip holding the main steering shaft in place,
Shown hiding behind the shaft,
As well as a spring, and a split spacer/backup washer thingie at the bottom of the spring.
The turn signal switch assembly comes off with a couple of screws,
But when you pop it apart, this little spring and it's two round seat pieces might try and fly away..!
They are supposed to be contained like this:
Underneath all that you'll find an internal circlip snap-ring,
As well as an external flat snap ring.
Mine had two thin spacer washers beneath.
Any fool can take things apart (you'd think),
But i got about this far before running into a few questions.
I'll put this intro up to here,
And we'll proceed with individual issues in separate posts.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!?
Last edited by Clatter on Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Many might be inclined to leave this whole thing together.
Looking again at it, that would be a great plan,
However,
By car had a problem with "Old Crispy" the big black power wire coming from the coil + side.
In my case, a PO had (poorly) re-wired the idle cut-offs and choke elements,
Which were also taken off the coil + side.
These got tangled up with the carb linkage and shorted out, melting Old Crispy in the process.
Old Crispy is NOT protected by a fuse!
It also has the back-up light circuit attached, as well as being a clever place for a PO to find a hot power source,
So it's not just VW being lazy this way.
This wire being melted is not uncommon.
I'm already replacing the main harness,
but,
You'll see our friend here naked of his insulation..
So this means that our column wiring must be pulled for inspection..
While i might be able to get away with just replacing that one wire,
A 50-year-old anything would likely love a cleaning/inspection/sussing/lube.
I know i sure would..
So how to get the thing apart??
Factory has this to say:
They seem to like the solder melted at the terminal block here, right?
Leaving these square ones at the cylinder connected..
Column King 'ataraxia' here has suggested leaving the wires at the block connected,
And unsoldering the squares?
I'm a bit skeered of getting fragile bakelite parts too hot..
Here in Monte's great build thread,
he did this after the lock cylinder was apart..
Ssoooo...
How to best pull all of this wiring apart? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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rustyfastback Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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I have rebuilt at least 15 of these columns. My experience if the wires are melted like the ones on your column, just un-solder them at the back of the ignition switch. If they are in good shape it is very tricky removing the ignition switch while carefully extracting the wires from the column (very tight space for wiring). The bakelite part is more likely to come apart leaving the wires attached. Make sure to test that ignition switch as I have seen several with burnt wires that are non functional. Also the gray wire is only for a euro spec car. I can see in the photo the signal arm & wire terminal block on your column is for a USA spec, so just leave the gray wire out. |
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axeman569 Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2015 Posts: 83 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Nice. Getting ready to put one back together> |
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t3kg Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: Los Angeles
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Yup, not a fun job. I had to replace the ignition switch in my T-34, and like Scott said, got very good with a soldering iron. Take detailed pics as you go to help your memory. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Username1 Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2019 Posts: 5 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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I just completed this process last weekend - replaced all wiring in the column. If you dont use the correct gauge wiring on the ignition switch portion it will not fit back through the column very easy/at all - not a lot of room in there.
Ive replaced the wiring directly on the ignition switch with zero issues to the bakelite backing. Just desolder one at a time waiting a minute before moving on to the next. Same goes for installation - dont solder them all at once to keep things from overheating.
I did find it much easier to solder the wiring to the switch and then install the switch- not much room to get the wires in those tiny solder posts once the switch is back in the column. |
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ALLWAGONS Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000 Posts: 4189 Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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[quote="t3kg"]If you're a member of the VW Type 3 group on Facebook you can check out Lionel Mendoza's step-by-step column rebuild tutorial: https://www.facebook.com/groups/volkswagentype3/search/?query=column&hc_location=ufi
What type 3 group? I thought we were all type 3 brothers here? _________________ I'd be UNSTOPPABLE if not for Law Enforcement and PHYSICS.
I recycle old cars and parts, other than when I rot, that's as Green as I am going to get.
Thanks to my Tesla driving neighbors, I feel more relaxed driving my SUBURBAN and old VW's.
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t3kg Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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ALLWAGONS wrote: |
What type 3 group? I thought we were all type 3 brothers here? |
On Facebook there are a lot of special interest groups people have created to connect over particular topics of interest. Some of them are private groups and you have to request permission to join to be able to see what people post there. VW Type 3 is one of those, and that's where Lionel happened to post his tutorial. So, you have to both be on Facebook and be a member of "VW Type 3" to be able to see it.
There are lot of other Type 3-related FB groups too:
Type 3 Underground
VW Type 3 Notchback 1961-73
Volkswagen Type 3 Swapmeet
VW Type 3 Toys and Memorabilia
T34 World
The Type 34 Registry
VW Razor's Edge (Type 34)
VW Type 3 Abarth Drivers
Type 3 Preservation Society New Mexico Chapter
etc.
etc.
You can join in too, as long as you don't mind handing over all your personal data to Mark Z. _________________ 5/62 343
I WAS THERE! The 2017 Type 3 Rally / September 29–October 1 / Cayucos, CA
2014: The 2014 Type 3 Rally / October 3–5 / Cayucos, CA
2011: 50 Years of the VW Type 3 / September 29–October 1 / California Central Coast |
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t3kg Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: Los Angeles
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Wow, great information there, gentlemen!
Much appreciated..
I guess I'll continue along with the detailed words/pics 'how to'..
Facebook is going to go away like Friendster or Myspace did.
Yeah,
Some forums have gone away, Like superbeetlesonly.com,
And Germanlook.net is on life support.
The STF sometimes seems a bit quiet as well..
But the Samba shall endure forever!
Long after Facebook is gone and forgotten about..
So, here is verification of what we have;
Tracing out the wires to see where exactly they go.
With a PO having been in there before, anything is possible.
Printed full-color copy of the wiring diagram, in conjunction with a meter, verifies where these wires end up on the other end once they disappear into the column.
Magnifying glass helps me see the tiny terminal numbers, and wiring stripe colors.
So far, it looks like my wiring colors and terminal numbers are all correct.
My column wiring may just be un-molested from factory new.
Does anyone else have these tiny wraps of electrical tape(?) around some of the wires above the junction block?
Wondering if the factory put these in for additional insulation/chafe prevention,
Or if a PO might have been at work here..
'ataraxia' NOS column doesn't seem to have these.
Lastly,
I'm surprised to see a shiny gloss finish on the column rebuilt by 't3kg' here.
An 'ataraxia' column, looking to be NOS, shows a semi-gloss black sheen, far as I can tell.
Maybe the Ghia has a shiny column?
Mine -seems- to be semi-gloss, even flat,
But,
It's all so faded/tattered,
it coulda been gloss back in the day, and one would never know.. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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About the high/low button on the turn signal stalk..
There are supposed to be screws in the holes holding it on?
Mine was just kind of floating in place, with the wiring holding it in,
As well as this little cone-shaped tan plug thingie in there..
Just one spring inside?
The end of the button has a notch on mine.
Is that supposed to be a ring, and it got broken?
Oddly enough, it did used to work.
Maybe that's how it's supposed to be? _________________ Bus Motor Build
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69823 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Here are some photos of my NOS Type 3 steering column.
It's sort of a medium gloss black
There is only one screw holding the high/low dipswitch in place but it has a riveted-on tab on the other side that I believe the switch slips under?
I didn't unscrew it to see exactly how it works and it may vary by year.
_________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Username1 Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2019 Posts: 5 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Mine also has the single screw holding the hi/lo switch in |
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t3kg Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: Los Angeles
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t3kg Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2006 Posts: 2712 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Here's mine before I started:
I unsoldered terminal 50 on the terminal block and pressed the ignition switch out with the wires attached. After everything was cleaned up and refurbished I soldered in replacement wires on the switch before reinstalling it into the column. If the bakelite cap on your switch is fairly solid I would try to avoid unsoldering the wires with the switch still in the column. Just go slow and steady and carefully pull the wires out of the column without stressing the soldered terminals as you press out the switch.
I ended up installing an NOS dimmer switch. You can still find them out there. It's nice because the kits come with all the hardware you might be missing — screw, spring, etc. Getting those tiny wires rerouted through the housing is no fun though, so if you do it be sure to run a guide wire to pull them through. _________________ 5/62 343
I WAS THERE! The 2017 Type 3 Rally / September 29–October 1 / Cayucos, CA
2014: The 2014 Type 3 Rally / October 3–5 / Cayucos, CA
2011: 50 Years of the VW Type 3 / September 29–October 1 / California Central Coast |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Thanks again for all of your fine wisdom, Scott.
If you got the WW paint for this,
Then that might be what it looked like new,
And these NOS columns have faded to a flat sheen on the shelf after 50 years?
And..
You were right!
Look at that PO hack slicing..
At least they soldered it.
Followed y'alls advice;
Veeerrryy carefully de-soldered each ignition square one at a time, cooling between.
Soon as solder melted, wire was pried free.
Once the key went in, ignition switch came free intact.
So that leads to another question...
I have an ultrasonic cleaner (that i have yet to actually use ).
Think i should throw the entire cylinder in the soup all in one shot,
Or do i dare disassemble? _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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Here's Monte's ignition switch rebuild adventure.
Makes me want to just leave this thing together!
Maybe get a big clear plastic freezer bag and pop it apart inside so as to catch everything..
MonT3 wrote: |
I decided to attempt putting my ignition back together. Started out by looking at the outer cover which had the wiring. I take when these units are installed into the column, the wires are fed through which I get. if they have to be replaced, I think it would be hard to get it out complete, as the wires are ran through a small spot and would have some trouble backing them out as a whole or one by one. Either way, my attempt to remove the whole thing failed and here I am looking at four springs, the outer plate and inner plate/cover and a paper shield which all have the be placed back in.
Interstingly, after recovering the springs and the inner cover which came out, no other pieces came from the ignitions back end. What you see there is how it came out. I studied Mr Wolfes reference, (thanks ataraxia) http://classicvw.org/gallery2/v/ign_switch/ whish is great help but it aslo opened alot of questions I haven't found answers to yet. I never had the opportunity to meet, chat or ask questions of Mr. Wolfe but he continues to teach. Thank you Sir.
I started by removing the wires which were soldered into the square posts. Placed the iron directly on the tops of the square, waited a little and tugged on the wire until it freed itself. After all the wires were removed, I went back to each square and applied the iron to the top until I could see the solder soften, pulled the iron back and blew out the solder from the square post. Cleaned up the end cap and contacts on the reverse side, borrowed my wife's tweezers and sat down to research as much as I could on the rebuilding of an ignition. There's not much out there.
Looking at the springs, one of them is longer than the others, I noticed the plate that was in the ignition was sitting (possibly) opposite of where it should be. I only say this because the bearing which looks to make contact with certain points below would need a little pressure to keep it in place otherwise it would move, get stuck with the grease coating and not go back in place. a spring would assist the plate that was in there looks to be backwards.
The bearing is in the lower left side of the inner portion of the tube. The brown plate looks to be spun around and not in the right spot
Spinning the plate around would offer a place for the spring to remain in place.
The paper cover has some indents where the two other springs probably sat. They coincide with the holes in the plate above
The cover plate and the paper shield cover the springs and is in place but where does that straggler spring go??!!!
The small square-like nub slips into the slot cut-out in the tube BUT that's that only one. There isn't one on the other side.
The cover shows not sign of a missing piece Maybe it's not the correct piece for this tube. Maybe this ignition was rebuilt by someone and an added spring was tossed in? IDK...
Adding some pressure on the top with the tweezers as if should look this way. Unfortunately, it doesn't. I don't think the outer plastic cap would have anything to do with holding this in place. Any thoughts?
So close to finishing up but again, I'm not 100% sure I have this thing assembled correctly as I have no real reference on this. Should anyone have something like and exploded diagram, I would certainly appreciate having a look at it as I don't know if this would work. As mentioned earlier, the grey wires was not used and was tucked inside the tube. Mr. Wolfe's ignition he used didn't have a post for the grey wire on the end cap. Has anyone noticed the differences in the end caps? |
_________________ Bus Motor Build
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13280 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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fuck, those pics give me flashbacks. I dove head first into the ignition on my daily driver notch like 16 17ish years ago with no idea what I was doing and I should not have done it. somehow I did manage to get it back together and working just in time to get to work _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22425 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Column Rebuild |
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And another reason why I went with the 68 and later style ignition and column head assembly. At least on those the electrical portion of the ignition switch is self contained. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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