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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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 Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:59 pm Post subject: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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As digging into the brakes on Ruby (1964 Beetle), finding a lot needs to be replaced from sitting for almost 20 years, plethora of rust and mismatched parts (one drum even says made in Japan).
Anyone have any experience with JBugs' kit: https://www.jbugs.com/product/T15864BK.html?
Seems one can't get cylinder rebuild kits anymore, though have my doubts if even be possible with all the rust. Looking for German rear wheel cylinders, looks as if the supply is drying up?
By the way, replacing all the hard lines also, not going to waste time trying to get them off the soft lines. Do it and don't have to worry, especially being single circuit (which keeping as not going to be a daily driver, goodness, will never see another freeway ever again).
Thank y'all in advance!
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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vwoldbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 1214
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:12 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Are you replacing the hoses also. |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31352
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:40 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Seems one can't get cylinder rebuild kits anymore, though have my doubts if even be possible with all the rust. Looking for German rear wheel cylinders, looks as if the supply is drying up? |
Wheel cylinder technology is really quite simple; I've honed/rebuilt these in the past but feel its better to just install new ones.
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| By the way, replacing all the hard lines also, not going to waste time trying to get them off the soft lines. |
Adriel - I'm also in Arizona, and I would try to remove the fittings on the hard lines first, you have nothing to lose unless they are really rusted (rare in an Arizona VW). Use penetrating oil in advance, and use an 11mm flare/line wrench.
My 1970 still has all its factory steel brake lines, but I did replace the flexible lines and all hydraulic cylinders when I resurrected it after it sat on the side of my house for 23 years (Brazilian master cylinder). I did not get new drums for it, and I used Wagner Thermo Quiet brake shoes.
The JBugs kit you linked seems fine.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8698
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:48 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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Removing the hard lines carefully and in one piece would not be a waste of time, as you can then use the old lines as patterns to correctly bend the new lines.
Lately I buy german brake parts from Wolfsburg West.
_________________
Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:51 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Seems one can't get cylinder rebuild kits anymore, though have my doubts if even be possible with all the rust. Looking for German rear wheel cylinders, looks as if the supply is drying up? |
Wheel cylinder technology is really quite simple; I've honed/rebuilt these in the past but feel its better to just install new ones. |
I prefer honing, taught/convinced Brother on Oma's '61 Impala, though am willing to accept sometimes the rust has caused pitting beyond honing.
| Cusser wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| By the way, replacing all the hard lines also, not going to waste time trying to get them off the soft lines. |
Adriel - I'm also in Arizona, and I would try to remove the fittings on the hard lines first, you have nothing to lose unless they are really rusted (rare in an Arizona VW). Use penetrating oil in advance, and use an 11mm flare/line wrench. |
Bummer not closer, sometimes wish had an extra hand. Ruby does have a lot of rust as a coastal California girl. Further, have only once in my youth used a standard spanner on a hydraulic line, then bought a set of flare wrenches. 
| Cusser wrote: |
My 1970 still has all its factory steel brake lines, but I did replace the flexible lines and all hydraulic cylinders when I resurrected it after it sat on the side of my house for 23 years (Brazilian master cylinder). I did not get new drums for it, and I used Wagner Thermo Quiet brake shoes.
The JBugs kit you linked seems fine. |
Your 1970 also is dual circuit brakes. Good to know the kit should be okay and of another shoe option, thanks.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:56 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Q-Dog wrote: |
Removing the hard lines carefully and in one piece would not be a waste of time, as you can then use the old lines as patterns to correctly bend the new lines.
Lately I buy german brake parts from Wolfsburg West. |
Hard and soft lines already removed, did it in one piece. Each is set in the front foot well of their respective sides so can bend the shape correctly.
I did purchase a very large order from them, all German where possible, which happened to arrive on Dad's birthday, though was just for getting the original phase one done. Now that look for rear wheel cylinders, NLA.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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wheel607
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1847
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| You can still get NOS German brake parts (ALL). They will of course cost you more. I have tried most all parts from China, Brazil, and they are junk. Some parts do not work at all right out of the boxes. If you plan on keeping the VW......look and buy the best...………….once! Over 50 years experience. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12846
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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That kit is an expensive way to go, you can get all of it for around half that price at Rockauto.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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I got 25+ years out of a Brazilian Varga/TRW master cylinder, and wheel cylinders on a 74 Super.
Wanting something from Germany believing it’s the highest quality can sometimes get you the most expensive junk. German parts USED to be the highest quality, but in 2020, it’s who cares the most about quality control.
I look for the Varga stuff, and recently OEM manufacture ATE has come out with a “classic” line, and is again making stuff for A/C VW’s. The Varga stuff is Brazilian, and the last ATE cylinders I installed were made in Italy.
Most in the hobby buy on price alone. It’s hard for a vendor to carry inexpensive, and expensive brake parts when the overwhelming majority buys the inexpensive parts. I’ve installed lots of EMPI’s Chinese wheel/master cylinders at the shop I used to work at without any issues. I haven’t been logging the miles on every car I worked on in the 6 years since I left to tell how long those parts have lasted, but none were defective out of the box.
The master cylinder in the JBugs ad is an ATE, but it doesn’t say much about the other items except “German”.
And buying 56 year old NOS stuff....? Good luck with that....
Last edited by [email protected] on Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| wheel607 wrote: |
| You can still get NOS German brake parts (ALL). They will of course cost you more. I have tried most all parts from China, Brazil, and they are junk. Some parts do not work at all right out of the boxes. If you plan on keeping the VW......look and buy the best...………….once! Over 50 years experience. |
Trouble is the time finding the NOS and knowing where to look; eBay so far produced nothing though didn't look super hard.
As for keeping, will never be sold, belongs to the family. If some odd reason I find a lady and have children, one will inherit. If not, one of my nephews or nieces.
As will keep saying, another reason refuse to go with Asian, Brazilian, or Chinese is because I am building her exactly like Dad was going to, as best can, with the exception of taking out the rear seat and putting in a platform for transporting the dogs (though did like that idea for the Alaska trip we were dreaming of doing).
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
I got 25+ years out of a Brazilian Varga/TRW master cylinder, and wheel cylinders on a 74 Super.
Wanting something from Germany believing it’s the highest quality can sometimes get you the most expensive junk. German parts USED to be the highest quality, but in 2020, it’s who cares the most about quality control.
I look for the Varga stuff, and recently OEM manufacture ATE has come out with a “classic” line, and is again making stuff for A/C VW’s. The Varga stuff is Brazilian, and the last ATE cylinders I installed were made in Italy.
Most in the hobby buy on price alone. It’s hard for a vendor to carry inexpensive, and expensive brake parts when the overwhelming majority buys the inexpensive parts. I’ve installed lots of EMPI’s Chinese wheel/master cylinders at the shop I used to work at without any issues. I haven’t been logging the miles on every car I worked on in the 6 years since I left to tell how long those parts have lasted, but none were defective out of the box.
The master cylinder in the JBugs ad is an ATE, but it doesn’t say much about the other items except “German”.
And buying 56 year old NOS stuff....? Good luck with that.... |
Okay, fine, what I mean is made in Germany or made in other countries by a German manufacture. Take Mahle, who run all their factories as if in Germany and do random surprise inspections to keep high quality production. ATe bet the same, any others please?
I am willing to pay more for a kit than have to go all over the internet hunting down bits of this and that, to a point, as understand they put their time in putting together a kit. I am also willing to spend more if going to get a quality product.
Another example just remembered was the soft brake hoses. Wolfsburg West wants about $25 for their German hoses, where Eric has Italian hoses for about half that. So will shop some and get at least a bird's eye view, rather than an ant's view.
Again, thank you for the help.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31352
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:43 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Cusser wrote: |
Wheel cylinder technology is really quite simple; I've honed/rebuilt these in the past but feel its better to just install new ones.
My 1970 still has all its factory steel brake lines, but I did replace the flexible lines and all hydraulic cylinders when I resurrected it after it sat on the side of my house for 23 years (Brazilian master cylinder). I did not get new drums for it, and I used Wagner Thermo Quiet brake shoes. |
I believe that my wheel cylinders on my 1970 are Chinese made (installed 2016-2017). Actually, correction to above: in 2017 I did get two rear drums for it, from RockAuto, were Raybestos Pro "brand" turned out to be German-made.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
Wheel cylinder technology is really quite simple; I've honed/rebuilt these in the past but feel its better to just install new ones.
My 1970 still has all its factory steel brake lines, but I did replace the flexible lines and all hydraulic cylinders when I resurrected it after it sat on the side of my house for 23 years (Brazilian master cylinder). I did not get new drums for it, and I used Wagner Thermo Quiet brake shoes. |
I believe that my wheel cylinders on my 1970 are Chinese made (installed 2016-2017). Actually, correction to above: in 2017 I did get two rear drums for it, from RockAuto, were Raybestos Pro "brand" turned out to be German-made. |
Rock Auto only has IAP from Italy, though significantly less than JBugs. This is much appreciated as part of what I was looking for, thank you.
So, ordered the kit without drums. This gives the advantage that can take the rear drums somewhere and have them inspected. If can't find a place to turn them or past tolerance, then get the drums from Rock Auto at less cost than the kit.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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vdubmyk
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008
Posts: 508
Location: Corona, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:19 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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I bought a brake kit (minus drums and hard lines) from SoCal Imports about 10 years ago and I've had no issue with them. I went with it at the time due to the cost so when I had money, I went ahead and purchased a FAG master cylinder to swap it out with. I've still got it in a box as mine is working fine. With that said, if I had a choice now, I would pay the extra money and get a brand name as their quality control seems to be better with the stuff sold today.
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64 stock bug, 12V (converted 6v unit), 40 hp, all documents even sales contract and dealer window sticker! |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5469
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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The front wheel cylinders in my '64 buggy were Varga (Brazil) installed in 1992. The rear wheel cylinders were Bendix and failed a few years ago, replaced with Varga.
Now I have a new dual circuit Varga master cylinder and new Varga rear wheel cylinders. All the rubber containing parts are being replaced and I'm switching to DOT5 silicone brake fluid. It's not hydroscopic and it doesn't damage paint, unlike normal brake juice.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Buggeee
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Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4406
Location: Stuck in Ohio
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31352
Location: Hot Arizona
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| Buggeee wrote: |
| I used that JBugs kit on my 61 because I was in a race against time and it worked out great for me. The only issue was that the hole for the exit tube of the oil slinger in the rear drum was not there. I had to assemble without the oil slinger because of that missing hole. Everything else about the kit fit perfectly and it all works great. |
Did yours have Chinese rear hoses? Mine did and peeves me being lied to.
If do order the rear drums from Rock Auto, will be interesting to see if those have the oil passage.
Over all, would recommend for those more in a hurry and/or looking for Ate cylinders. Just be sure to get the brake reservoir seal and rear brake hoses from Bughaus.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5469
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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I don't think any of the new '58-'67 drums have the oil slinger holes. I think they are all basically '66-'67 drums. Short spline still, but they increase the track width 6mm per side and no oil slinger holes.
I have seen some new drums that are pretty much smooth top (instead of the the ribber reenforced center) and perhaps some of those are narrower and have the oil holes, but replacement drums seem to claim to be for all Bugs '58-'67, while the correct drums for that year range include 2 different types.
_________________
| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:13 am Post subject: Re: JBugs' Brake Rebuild Kit |
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| EVfun wrote: |
I don't think any of the new '58-'67 drums have the oil slinger holes. I think they are all basically '66-'67 drums. Short spline still, but they increase the track width 6mm per side and no oil slinger holes.
I have seen some new drums that are pretty much smooth top (instead of the the ribber reenforced center) and perhaps some of those are narrower and have the oil holes, but replacement drums seem to claim to be for all Bugs '58-'67, while the correct drums for that year range include 2 different types. |
Is this detrimental not to have those holes?
Can the early style swing axle be converted to the later swing axle if is?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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