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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4024 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:25 pm Post subject: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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Working on a customers 86 2WD Westy. Came to me for a new propane tank, that's a whole different story.
While on the lift I spun the front wheel and it was rough and noisy. I ordered a set of Timken bearing and seals to possibly do both sides inner and outer with seals.
The outer bearing was stuck to the spindle and I had to pound the rotor to get he bearing out as the spindle was scored. The old or new bearing would not slide on the spindle. I went after it with some Emery paper and was able to to get it to slide on and and off, the outer bearing race was chewed up as well. In went the new bearing and I replaced the race. Nice and quiet now.
So since I had the inners I decided to change them, I drove the race out and opened the box to find no inner race? I asked around and this is some what common and you need to buy and inner race separately , I've never heard of this before. I am not going to join an unknown race to a new Timken bearing.
You can buy new FAG's complete with inner race if the online pictures are accurate.
At this point there was nothing wrong with original bearing so I put it back in and will run it. I am leary of the replace everything mindset any way.
Has anyone experienced this or think I'm just crazy and would just buy a race and go on. It spins way better and I'm going to run it as as is and see what happens.
Comments, suggestions or sympathy or even criticism is welcome.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17153 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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Yes it is common to sell races and bearings separately. Not so much for Vanagon front wheel bearings. I don’t recall seeing them sold not in a set. _________________ ☮️ |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32625 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4789 Location: Bemidji, MN
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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i've got some boxed Timken bearings i carry as spares... will have to check the contents!
my Dad always said you never switch races between new bearings, as the tolerances were matched. that's outdated now apparently, and i have no doubt the inner race may be made in Hungary and the outer race in China, or some such permutation.
interesting how one bombing raid led to dispersed production of bearings in Germany during WWII....
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/schweinfurt-regensburg-raid-august-17-1943 _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16878 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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I have run into this in recent years.
they usually refer to this as a "bearing cup" and a "bearing cone"
total pain in the ass, and you need to pay attention to the bearing p/n witch SHOULD reflect if you are getting both pieces _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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zerotofifty Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003 Posts: 1559
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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From my decades of working on Bug, the bearing always came as a complete set.
Few years back started working on Jeeps, and surprise, I found it was common for the races to be separately sold. BUT you should buy all the parts and replace as a set.
Separate selling means one can use the same bearing for different bored races. I pick the bearing size, then the outer race bore size, and then inner race bore size (spindle size)
I image since so many Bugs were sold, that it made sense to sell complete sets as a unit. maybe that is a european thing? For the American jeeps, it is different _________________ Give peace a chance. No American war with Russia! |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6246 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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I redid my front end about 6 months ago. Bearings and races were sold separately. Guy at the parts counter let me know so I didn't miss out.. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50347
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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I would suspect that the factory sold them as separate parts as they seemed to not like having kits and instead make you order every last piece separately. |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4024 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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That may be, but why were the outside bearing complete with races? It just seems str add age to me but I guess it’s a common thing. I just never got the E mail.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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harvgwen Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2021 Posts: 160 Location: British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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I didn’t get the email either. I was taught (45 years ago) that they were always matched sets. I guess that’s no longer the case. _________________ 1986 Westfalia Vanagon, 2.2 Subaru
British Columbia, Canada |
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69aircooled Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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I work for Timken and can say that bearings can be sold as a set or as ‘outer’ or ‘inner’, but generally sold as at set. For automotive I have seen both when I worked at an independent VW repair shop many moons ago.
With that said, the best practice is to buy a ‘set’, inner and outer together if possible. Timken bearings are generally ‘case carburised’ then hardened so that they have a hard outer shell with a softer core, think of a M&M candy. This allows the bearing to better survive in application. Where I work, our bearings range from @5” bore up to 26” outside diameter.
The last bearings I ordered from my company came from Poland as we have manufacturing all over the world. |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2331 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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In 2010-11, when doing my TDI install project, I also went over practically everything from bumper to bumper, including bearings. I purchased all them on-line. They came in sets.
Then, fast forward to about 2018, I ordered spares to have when out on the road if ever necessary. Low and behold, the front inner bearings were packaged without the race. Yes, I was a bit pissed. So, hence forth, if the bearings are not offered in a set, I will not buy them. I'll shop until I find them in sets. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50347
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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I needed bearings for the front of my "Thing" 40 years back, pretty sure I went to a FLAPS and had to get individual cups and cones, but thought little of it as that is how most of the various bearings I ordered for work always came. Maybe I have just never thought that they could be ordered as a set at that time.
Guess I have been lucky as those "Thing" bearing were the only ones I have ever had fail on my own rigs in over 50 years of vehicle ownership (they were making a grinding noise on a left hand turn, the failure was the inner bearing on the left which seemed weird as it was the larger of the two. |
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khughes Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013 Posts: 747 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Timken 2WD inner bearing with no race new in box |
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Well, I've been out of twisting wrenches for a living for, oh 5 decades, but never have I encountered (in those years or since) a tapered wheel bearing that came without the race. That's some serious ungulate feces if'n you ask me. _________________ '86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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