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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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 Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:42 pm Post subject: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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Came across this gem on FB marketplace (link below was provided in the FB ad.)
https://www.evansmotors.net/vdp/12189131/Used-1975...g-KS-66762
(Everett, if this is posted in the wrong place please feel free to move it.)
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1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10998
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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A rather mediocre 21 window replica got bid up to $70k on BAT a few weeks ago and it didn't meet the dudes reserve if you can believe that.
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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junk.
Im tired of seeing this junk, I wish the market would stop supporting the demand.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| A rather mediocre 21 window replica got bid up to $70k on BAT a few weeks ago and it didn't meet the dudes reserve if you can believe that. |
Wow, I would have dropped that reserve immediately.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10998
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| A rather mediocre 21 window replica got bid up to $70k on BAT a few weeks ago and it didn't meet the dudes reserve if you can believe that. |
Wow, I would have dropped that reserve immediately. |
Agreed. But the point is there was at least one person willing to pay $70k for a fake 21.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69804
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| Quote: |
| Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k? |
Brazilian? Not to me but to someone else? Maybe.
A clean German-built 13/15-Window converted to a nice factory-looking 23-Window? I'd say Yes.
I noticed that Bus has a heater tube up front.
Now I'm confused on what Brazilian Buses have those and which do not.
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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Clearly a brazilian 15 turned into a 23.
The style is very not fashionable to bus snobs, which is what you'll find on these forums.
May be worth it, up to you.
Do some research . There are a number of 'what's this bus worth ' threads in these forums. Watch the date, as buses are worth more than ten years ago.
No pop out windows on the sides is odd.
This pic shows how the roof panels are kombi style, with skylights cut in.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| Clara wrote: |
May be worth it, up to you.
Do some research . There are a number of 'what's this bus worth ' threads in these forums. Watch the date, as buses are worth more than ten years ago.
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I'm just asking the experts on here out of curiosity- I have no real interest (and nowhere close to that kind of money.)
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11065
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10998
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| Clara wrote: |
Clearly a brazilian 15 turned into a 23.
The style is very not fashionable to bus snobs, which is what you'll find on these forums.
May be worth it, up to you.
Do some research . There are a number of 'what's this bus worth ' threads in these forums. Watch the date, as buses are worth more than ten years ago.
No pop out windows on the sides is odd.
This pic shows how the roof panels are kombi style, with skylights cut in.
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That looks like absolute shit. I'd be embarrassed to do that level of work and then ask more than $3k for it.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| Clara wrote: |
The style is very not fashionable to bus snobs, which is what you'll find on these forums.
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Hey-- you're right!! 
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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55samba
Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2002
Posts: 805
Location: CA Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| A replica 23 is easily worth 30k. But obviously it depends on the quality. Is a bad one worth 30k seems to be the question? |
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Peter T.
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Long Island, New York
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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whether its a Porsche speedster replica or a fake samba, its about personal taste, wallet-size and just plain old enjoyment of driving it. Personally I'd be terrified to drive a real samba that cost over $90,000 in NY (or for that matter Im terrified to drive my real Zwitter around here!).....too many drivers not paying a attention.
.......my 2 cents |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| 55samba wrote: |
| A replica 23 is easily worth 30k. But obviously it depends on the quality. Is a bad one worth 30k seems to be the question? |
So, what makes a bad one? Is this one a "bad" replica? If so why?? Guy above said it looks like absolute shit, and he would be embarrassed to ask $3k, but doesn't say why or go into any detail at all. That kind of post really DOES make this forum look snobbish.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10998
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| 55samba wrote: |
| A replica 23 is easily worth 30k. But obviously it depends on the quality. Is a bad one worth 30k seems to be the question? |
So, what makes a bad one? Is this one a "bad" replica? If so why?? Guy above said it looks like absolute shit, and he would be embarrassed to ask $3k, but doesn't say why or go into any detail at all. That kind of post really DOES make this forum look snobbish. |
Fair enough, look at the fit and finish of the headliner, the panels with headliner material glued to them and crammed in. It's shoddy, fast work done to make a quick buck relying on uneducated buyers to not notice the difference. All too typical in the classic car scene.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69804
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| sb001 wrote: |
| 55samba wrote: |
| A replica 23 is easily worth 30k. But obviously it depends on the quality. Is a bad one worth 30k seems to be the question? |
So, what makes a bad one? Is this one a "bad" replica? If so why?? Guy above said it looks like absolute shit, and he would be embarrassed to ask $3k, but doesn't say why or go into any detail at all. That kind of post really DOES make this forum look snobbish. |
First of all, it's a Brazilian Bus so there's a good chance it's already a POS to start with and has probably had shoddy repairs in the past or right now, possibly multiple times over.
In addition to other things mentioned, I see:
* Skylights are not recessed, they are popping out of the roof (crappy conversion)
* Seat upholstery looks sloppy
* Engine area metal and paint looks messed up with dents and fiberglass? and simply painted over afterward
* Non of the side windows pop-out. Can you say insane oven in the summer?
* Deluxe parts missing - No jail bars, no rear seat bar, etc.
* Front floor and cargo floor are just flat metal? Maybe that's sound padding though, hard to tell for sure. The cargo floor looks more like it could be some sort of sound dampening material.
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Bub
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 1151
Location: Central Washington
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| Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| 55samba wrote: |
| A replica 23 is easily worth 30k. But obviously it depends on the quality. Is a bad one worth 30k seems to be the question? |
So, what makes a bad one? Is this one a "bad" replica? If so why?? Guy above said it looks like absolute shit, and he would be embarrassed to ask $3k, but doesn't say why or go into any detail at all. That kind of post really DOES make this forum look snobbish. |
First of all, it's a Brazilian Bus so there's a good chance it's already a POS to start with and has probably had shoddy repairs in the past or right now, possibly multiple times over.
In addition to other things mentioned, I see:
* Skylights are not recessed, they are popping out of the roof (crappy conversion)
* Seat upholstery looks sloppy
* Engine area metal and paint looks messed up with dents and fiberglass? and simply painted over afterward
* Non of the side windows pop-out. Can you say insane oven in the summer?
* Deluxe parts missing - No jail bars, no rear seat bar, etc.
* Front floor and cargo floor are just flat metal? Maybe that's sound padding though, hard to tell for sure. The cargo floor looks more like it could be some sort of sound dampening material. |
All of that ^ honestly seems like 100% standard Brazilian build. Anyone who considers buying a Brazilian bus should expect that. Because YOU WILL GET IT.
But you can't bitch about the price of Brazilian busses' without including German ones. Want a Deluxe but don't have $75k for a rusty puzzle?
Then you get a tin can cattle carrier deluxe for 1/3 the price. If you've been into VW's and swapping/ flipping them since the 80's that's the market WE ALL have created.
We're all to blame for this, many have been smart one way or another and profited from or KEPT the desirable models.
Same deal with real estate in anywhere that's desirable.
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 557
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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Owning a 21 or 23 you must feel like all those Cobra replicas owners. I have yet to see an importer that cuts-up a bus roof and adds the Belly pan. So many have fallen for this b/c they want the "look" and don't know much about the Bus itself. Anything sells when popular-the Pinto comes to mind, but even worse, a Brazil bus 23 window converted to electric ! :2gunfire:
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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There are so many fake 21s/23s now that there are literally enough of them to comprise their own market category. And I don't think there's harm in that at all. There is a range of values for original sambas for which there were so many made, and simply put, the numbers of fakes in various ranges of quality can co-exist without affecting the real ones by much. The key is in making sure every knockoff is properly described as such. The two value ranges rely on one simple thing: the claimed authenticity
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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NUTSFORBUSES
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2016
Posts: 557
Location: I don't recognize it anymore
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Is a replica 23 window really worth $30k?? |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/productionfigures.php#splitscreen
Actually world production of Samba's is not that high considering how many have been destroyed and average car production, you take the 21's and 23's and it gets pretty small. I like the German Samba, and I don't care too much about Brazilian models, but to constantly "knock-off" and not follow the German engineering is just wrong. it's like trying to make a Bug into a Vert w/o taking in consideration of chassis strength.Even at Ferrari/Porsche they make a soft top stronger to accommodate the loss of roof strength, a Bus would be much more critical. This is also why you don't see race cars made from convertibles very often
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