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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:18 pm Post subject: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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Just getting started on a customer project. Supposed to have run fine before an accident - we are redoing the entire car.
Manx clone, assuming 1600 DP. I have VERY limited experience with the Weber Progressive that is on it and we are going to be making a decision soon on what to do.
Here are the parameters I am dealing with. Since its a buggy, he has some thought about the header he wants to use and they do have provisions for heat (which he currently has).
I have installed lots of dual set ups and usually go with HPMX or Dual Kads. Assuming he has or I will add the capability for better flow through the heads (ratio rockers or he may already have a cam), what is my performance benefit staying with the Weber or replacing it with duals.
Did a search and did not find the answer. Thanks for your help. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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The limit on the progressive is still the stock dual port end castings. Don't matter how much head cam & rockers you bolt on the engine.
You will always get better MPG with dual carbs. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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This is a street car and with the tires and gearing, I don't expect there to be a concern about 5000 RPM. I should have clarified that. What I am weighing is, till I am done messing with the progressive, would my customer be further ahead springing for duals. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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jeffrey8164 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 3804 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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For years, I ran a Weber Progressive (32/36DFAV) on a 1915 (042 Heads, VW200 Cam, 009 w/Pertronics) in a full body Ghia and got 32MPG. I was happy buy eventually went Dual Dells (40s). Woke it right the funk up.
If your guy wants to wake it up, get some 36 duals for the 1600 if it is indeed a 1600. _________________ Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
Let he that is without oil throw the first rod
(Compression 8.7:1) |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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The progressive is going to be more set it and forget it once it's tuned. Duals require a little bit of common sense and knowledge to know when they need to be adjusted. A lot of folks aren't willing to learn that (too lazy or impatient). _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1646 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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[email protected] wrote: |
The progressive is going to be more set it and forget it once it's tuned. Duals require a little bit of common sense and knowledge to know when they need to be adjusted. A lot of folks aren't willing to learn that (too lazy or impatient). |
This^^ most guys who are paying for upgrades cant understand small motors. Its stock 2 barrel on a v8, to edelbrock for more power, and then Holley double pumper bolt-ons and maybe a manifold upgrade all with no drive ability issues and little tuning. Adjusting linkages and other finagling is considered poor workmanship. _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:01 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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I would go duel hpmx. if somebody is too stupid and cany learn how to or what to do or listen thats thier issue. you cant fix stupid and they will have issues with anything. there should be no reason the duels would need resyncing if done right unless someone had effed with it or removed the crabs. do it right the first time and forget about it. |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7183 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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mark tucker wrote: |
I would go duel hpmx. if somebody is too stupid and cany learn how to or what to do or listen thats thier issue. you cant fix stupid and they will have issues with anything. there should be no reason the duels would need resyncing if done right unless someone had effed with it or removed the crabs. do it right the first time and forget about it. |
I wouldīnt call them that. I would rather say that their talents are in other areas. And you will be surprised about how many who donīt know, or canīt hear if somethings wrong. Thatīs partly why I began working with std plus engines. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12633 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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You see that in music all the time. The smartest guy in the world may not be able to appreciate anything more complicated than a drum beat. Don't bother taking him to listen to the philharmonic orchestra, he won't get a thing out of it. His ear is what heavy metal and rap were invented for. |
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Ohio Tom Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1657 Location: Marshallville Ohio
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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Progressive carbs can be re-jetted and made to work, but they will never have the HP of a single IDF , or better yet dual IDF's or even dual singles.
Progressives are worth about 3hp over a stock solex.
Not worth the effort and hassle IMO. I pretty much HATE them. NO place on a VW motor.
I have had much better luck with a single IDF carb setup. They run very well and offer lots more HP.
Obviously, dual IDF's are the ticket for best all around performance and drivability, but you MUST learn to syncronize them. When right, they are the best. |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2525 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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a little progressive carb history...they are a universal replacement version of the factory carb that came on a pinto or vega in the 70's...so they were designed for a small 4 cyl...theres absolutely nothing wrong with that carb and it was a wonderful replacement for the early rabbit carbs...i've even seen kits to put them on jeeps and other stuff....the problem is the manifold...lack of manifold heat causes fuel to come out of suspension, drowning some cylinders in raw fuel while others run lean...you then need to make the idle mixture too rich so the lean cylinders run at all...so the end result is fouled plugs and and gas in the oil...header systems that dont allow PROPER FLOW (NOT JUST A HOLE DRILLED IN A HEADER PIPE) of exhaust gas through the riser tubes make the situation worse...so fully warmed up in good weather its a great carb...but daily driver conditions in colder weather its awful...stock single barrel carbs can have these issues too but the increased volume and subsequent lower velocity in these manifolds makes the situation worse |
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7183 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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And that is why it is, again, important to chose the right manifold. With the right manifold and decent manifold preheat you do not need to have it to run rich. In fact it can handl a pretty nice and Lean setting.
The 3 hp postulate ist plain ridicules and has no bearing at all. |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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Upon further examination of this car, it was a decent build when done initially..not wild about some of the welds, but they held. This car looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet. We know nothing about the progressive other than it looks like its been on the car for quit a few miles. We may decide to give it a good cleaning and then see what happens, BUT it will also be dependent on what header he wants to use. Thanks for the input. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2525 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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if you stick with it the floats on them are prone to absorb fuel and lose buoyancy so if you pull the carb apart throw a new one in it |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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Which one should I run on my shitbox 1600? Looking to try something different just for fun. Running an 009 right now.
I'm not even exactly sure what they are. The single barrel is an ICT? And thr dbl barrel is some sort of progressive? _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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Lingwendil Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009 Posts: 3987 Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5446 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
[snip]
Which one should I run on my shitbox 1600? Looking to try something different just for fun. Running an 009 right now.
I'm not even exactly sure what they are. The single barrel is an ICT? And thr dbl barrel is some sort of progressive? |
That one is an old Weber replacement carburetor for a stock Bug. They used to be fairly popular back in the 1980's. I've always found them interesting and wondered how well they worked. Thing is, back in the '80's you could still find decent stock carb bodies (not needing to throttle shaft bushed) so I never bought one. It would be unique as I've not seen one in use for years. I've been told it takes 3 hands to rebuild those Webers. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20366 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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HPMX 40's would be my choice... _________________ Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9666 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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Dale M. wrote: |
HPMX 40's would be my choice... |
I agree, Kinda. A set of 40IDF FAJ's clones from Sherryberg (ebay) would be a better choice than the Weber progressive below,
Those will take almost the same amount of $$$ to get them cleaned and setup to run correctly. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Witnin01340 Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2021 Posts: 131 Location: PA
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Weber Progressive or duals? 1600 Dune buggy |
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The carb shown needs a bath,soak it in parts cleaner make sure the whole carb is submerged and let it for a week what shows on the outside is most likely in every port inside but its a TRUE weber and worth refurbishing,i run quite a few dfev progressives on offrd buggys and once there set properly theres not much that happens to them,iv had goodluck with them,its only a 1600cc so that extra little bit of carb over a pict 34 is good.
But if ya want new carb(s) dont think just sitting it,them, on and go,most times they need reset float etc and it dont matter if there hpmx or weber.
If your staying with the progressive or any centermount make sure the intake heat is hooked.
Check the main shaft for up and down play if it has any play it needs rebushed and may not be worth all that.goodluck with it. |
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