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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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 Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| buntist wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
So much misinformation provided. A 1600cc engine is 85,5mm, not 86. Further, produced 60hp (1300cc is 50hp  ) and in stock form will hit 90MPH, which I did trying to keep up with a friend with a lead foot. Why does one need a 100hp engine when the speed limit is 90MPH in only a few places, the average is 65MPH to 75MPH?
The reason I am even spending a half hour writing this after my other post seems to have been ignored is because you have put so much effort and time into restoring a piece of family history. Further, I have been young and wanting lots of performance, which only lead to unnecessary difficulties, though was worse with my brother, he spent so much and made it undriveable, he had to sell, leading it to be imported into Japan. Not saying not to, rather, to know why and fully sussed out. For example, going with such a steep camshaft profile to achieve lots of lift messes with the idle and therefore messes with the D-Jetronic.
Consider for example the next size up, 90.5mm, should be machine in cylinders, slip ins are thin and easier to overheat and warp, especially in warm climates. Additional cost for the machine work and the larger size, changes in the carburetor (hope enjoy jetting and fiddling), larger exhaust, etcetera. Plus, the more energy an engine produces, the harder it works, and the more heat is produced.
With the Squareback, I was fine with the horsepower, but wanted more torque for getting up to speed quicker so easier to drive in modern traffic and get out of a situation (I drive all my vehicles like motorcycles, meaning, braking isn't the only option).
Hope this helps.  |
Hi Adriel,
Really appreciate the response! And your earlier response. I have 85.5 pistons, and I would 100% agree with you. I think getting it to be a strong running 1600cc is what I will be doing. Just need to figure out what I will be doing with the flywheel and crank.
Reassessing, I would much rather have reliable drivability, lower cost, and less headache!
Appreciate it! |
Thank you for letting me know the signal was received.
First, let me say I love doing research and found these: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/short-stroke-vs-long-stroke-engines.3443170/
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=586867
Though don't think they apply?
Second, there is a lot that can be done to the 1600cc to increase output and enjoyment, in addition to the challenge and fun of being limited. It will be interesting to see how far and what you do. 
What happened to the flywheel? |
Thanks! I will definitely look into those links. I am not sure if I can ID the crank and the cam. The engine is supposed to have had some work done to it. The crank was machined 010 on the journals, and we were told that it was not stock, but who knows.
The crank and flywheel dowels wallowed out the holes because the gland nut was loose. and inspecting it, the treads were marred up.
Bummer deal, but I need some help id'ing the cam and crank.
Again, thanks for your input in my build! Much appreciated. |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| buntist wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| buntist wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
So much misinformation provided. A 1600cc engine is 85,5mm, not 86. Further, produced 60hp (1300cc is 50hp ) and in stock form will hit 90MPH, which I did trying to keep up with a friend with a lead foot. Why does one need a 100hp engine when the speed limit is 90MPH in only a few places, the average is 65MPH to 75MPH?
The reason I am even spending a half hour writing this after my other post seems to have been ignored is because you have put so much effort and time into restoring a piece of family history. Further, I have been young and wanting lots of performance, which only lead to unnecessary difficulties, though was worse with my brother, he spent so much and made it undriveable, he had to sell, leading it to be imported into Japan. Not saying not to, rather, to know why and fully sussed out. For example, going with such a steep camshaft profile to achieve lots of lift messes with the idle and therefore messes with the D-Jetronic.
Consider for example the next size up, 90.5mm, should be machine in cylinders, slip ins are thin and easier to overheat and warp, especially in warm climates. Additional cost for the machine work and the larger size, changes in the carburetor (hope enjoy jetting and fiddling), larger exhaust, etcetera. Plus, the more energy an engine produces, the harder it works, and the more heat is produced.
With the Squareback, I was fine with the horsepower, but wanted more torque for getting up to speed quicker so easier to drive in modern traffic and get out of a situation (I drive all my vehicles like motorcycles, meaning, braking isn't the only option).
Hope this helps. |
Hi Adriel,
Really appreciate the response! And your earlier response. I have 85.5 pistons, and I would 100% agree with you. I think getting it to be a strong running 1600cc is what I will be doing. Just need to figure out what I will be doing with the flywheel and crank.
Reassessing, I would much rather have reliable drivability, lower cost, and less headache!
Appreciate it! |
Thank you for letting me know the signal was received.
First, let me say I love doing research and found these: https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/short-stroke-vs-long-stroke-engines.3443170/
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=586867
Though don't think they apply?
Second, there is a lot that can be done to the 1600cc to increase output and enjoyment, in addition to the challenge and fun of being limited. It will be interesting to see how far and what you do.
What happened to the flywheel? |
Thanks! I will definitely look into those links. |
Okay, glad they are of interest after all.
| buntist wrote: |
| I am not sure if I can ID the crank and the cam. The engine is supposed to have had some work done to it. The crank was machined 010 on the journals, and we were told that it was not stock, but who knows. |
Why need to identify them?
| buntist wrote: |
The crank and flywheel dowels wallowed out the holes because the gland nut was loose. and inspecting it, the treads were marred up.
Bummer deal, but I need some help id'ing the cam and crank. |
Bummer indeed! Is there no room in the budget for replacing the damaged parts? I am for some reason getting confused...
| buntist wrote: |
| Again, thanks for your input in my build! Much appreciated. |
No problem, glad too! I wrote a long post, then came to my senses and realized it be rude to blather about some of the options.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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I quite honestly am having a very tough time deciding what I want from an engine.
Side note, my dad just picked up a 74 that looks to be in pretty great shape, should be a fairly small project to be a runner. I think he wants to cruise bugs with me!
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9641
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| Quote: |
| I quite honestly am having a very tough time deciding what I want from an engine. |
Several good articles here: https://www.aircooled.net/VW-Tech-Articles-Index/4449-2/ No need to go to a stroker crank engine at first. A well built 1600 or 1776 cc even with mostly stock components will be rugged and should withstand lots of hard-throttle driving. Building your first engine is an enormous confidence booster. You can add modifications later such as dual carburetors and header system to that first engine; or even build an entirely different engine that has more displacement. |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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build a 1904. simple, easy, and will work with stock or stock ported heads well.
theres a deck height chart that compares piston heights, crank throws, and rods lengths. use the chart to find out what length rods you need that will make assembly easier.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:16 am Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| Rome wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I quite honestly am having a very tough time deciding what I want from an engine. |
Several good articles here: https://www.aircooled.net/VW-Tech-Articles-Index/4449-2/ No need to go to a stroker crank engine at first. A well built 1600 or 1776 cc even with mostly stock components will be rugged and should withstand lots of hard-throttle driving. Building your first engine is an enormous confidence booster. You can add modifications later such as dual carburetors and header system to that first engine; or even build an entirely different engine that has more displacement. |
Thank you, Rome. I think I am actually going to try and repair the crank today.
If it comes out good, I will likely reassemble as is and get it running smoothly.
I have spent many hours the past month or so on ACN researching combos.
| Chickensoup wrote: |
build a 1904. simple, easy, and will work with stock or stock ported heads well.
theres a deck height chart that compares piston heights, crank throws, and rods lengths. use the chart to find out what length rods you need that will make assembly easier. |
Hi chickensoup,
Definitely looking into the options like this one for the future. With the car my dad picked up, there were lots of parts included, which would make for a total of 3 engines. Thank you for messaging me back regarding builds! Much appreciated. |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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Photos of case. Split in half.
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
What happened here?
Bet feels good getting the case knocked down. |
Couldn’t really tell ya! Maybe a rock, maybe a jack, don’t know if it is detrimental to the case.
Does feel good. Although now what. Lol |
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| buntist wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
What happened here?
Bet feels good getting the case knocked down. |
Couldn’t really tell ya! Maybe a rock, maybe a jack, don’t know if it is detrimental to the case. |
Myself, would use JB Weld industrial (not the quick) and cement back what you have. I have used it on a diesel injection pump per a recommendation when had an accident.
| buntist wrote: |
| Does feel good. Although now what. Lol |
Have a soda pop. 
Look at the list, or don't have one, maybe make one. For me, it be cleaning the case.
Do you have a useable crankshaft?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Chickensoup
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 5368
Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:59 am Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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First off, pull the galley plugs.
Then clean the snot out of the case. Lots if threads on that.
You have a vw factory recycled case. Meaning it was rebuilt as a core by vw.
That 020 stamp means that its been line bored at least once. But you still need to measure the bores and thrust.
That crumble damage is fine. Leave it.
It looks like you need a line bore. Again, only way to know is if you measure. If you catch your finger nail even a little bit over the bores, then it absolutely needs one.
_________________
-'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| Chickensoup wrote: |
First off, pull the galley plugs.
Then clean the snot out of the case. Lots if threads on that.
You have a vw factory recycled case. Meaning it was rebuilt as a core by vw.
That 020 stamp means that its been line bored at least once. But you still need to measure the bores and thrust.
That crumble damage is fine. Leave it.
It looks like you need a line bore. Again, only way to know is if you measure. If you catch your finger nail even a little bit over the bores, then it absolutely needs one. |
Thanks, is it a concern that one of the head stud case savers pulled? |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7023
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| buntist wrote: |
| Thanks, is it a concern that one of the head stud case savers pulled? |
If you're talking about the one at upper left in the picture below, that is where the factory used a "deep stud". The stud hole was bored farther into the case and a longer stud used at that location to fight the tendency for the case to crack forward of the #3 cylinder. If you shine a light down the hole and have a look, you'll most likely see the case saver is still there.
For what it's worth, the case in question is a VW factory exchange (replacement) and not a factory rebuilt unit. That's not to say it hasn't been rebuilt at some point in its life, just not at the factory. The big tipoffs are the VW exchange symbol preceding the serial number, the serial number ending with an X indicating this one is post-October 1968 in origin, no evidence of an old serial number having been milled off and a new one applied, and the fact that all F0 series cases were single relief whereas this one is a dual relief. At the very oldest this particular case dates from August 1969. *edit* The casting codes in the case tell us the case dates from 1971.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| mukluk wrote: |
| buntist wrote: |
| Thanks, is it a concern that one of the head stud case savers pulled? |
If you're talking about the one at upper left in the picture below, that is where the factory used a "deep stud". The stud hole was bored farther into the case and a longer stud used at that location to fight the tendency for the case to crack forward of the #3 cylinder. If you shine a light down the hole and have a look, you'll most likely see the case saver is still there.
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I was just in the shop removing some plugs and noticed just that! Thanks!
| mukluk wrote: |
For what it's worth, the case in question is a VW factory exchange (replacement) and not a factory rebuilt unit. That's not to say it hasn't been rebuilt at some point in its life, just not at the factory. The big tipoffs are the VW exchange symbol preceding the serial number, the serial number ending with an X indicating this one is post-October 1968 in origin, no evidence of an old serial number having been milled off and a new one applied, and the fact that all F0 series cases were single relief whereas this one is a dual relief. At the very oldest this particular case dates from August 1969. *edit* The casting codes in the case tell us the case dates from 1971. |
Greatly appreciate the info! |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:43 am Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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Been a while here (about 2 years to the day since last post). I still have the project, just no progress, LIFE has happened at full force.
I have however bought and sold a number of cars from 2 different estates and in the process met a gentleman I sold a 51 chevy deluxe coupe to that has a restoration biz and made a me an offer to finish the body work on my vert.
I didn't take him up on it (yet at least) because still hard to stomach outsourcing the work and paying handily for it.
But, hoping to get back to work on the car in some capacity soon! I miss it. |
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rndnoramericaina72poptop
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Edmonds, WA just n. of Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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Your convertible looks like it may be Pacific Blue like my 65.
_________________
65 convertible Pacific Blue
80 Ford Courier 2.3 5spd LB
15 & 17 E-Golfs
07 Dodge Sprinter 2500
Previous owner of 61,65,66,68,69,70,74 Type I
Previous owner of 68,70,72,89,90 Type II
Previous owner of 63,64,64,66,68 Type III
Previous owner of 70,73,75 914
previous owner 68 Ghia, 74 Thing
P.O. Renault R8, R10s,R16s
P.O. 78 Fiat 128 4dr, 1200 Cabriolet
P.O. Triumphs 64 TR4 Sebring ed. & 76 TR6
European car enthusiast aka Nutjob |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:43 am Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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| rndnoramericaina72poptop wrote: |
Your convertible looks like it may be Pacific Blue like my 65. |
Yes sir! That car looks beautiful.
way back in the thread here there is a photo of the paint code tag (still on the car) which is for pacific blue.
Do you have a white vert top? |
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rndnoramericaina72poptop
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Edmonds, WA just n. of Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:49 am Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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_________________
65 convertible Pacific Blue
80 Ford Courier 2.3 5spd LB
15 & 17 E-Golfs
07 Dodge Sprinter 2500
Previous owner of 61,65,66,68,69,70,74 Type I
Previous owner of 68,70,72,89,90 Type II
Previous owner of 63,64,64,66,68 Type III
Previous owner of 70,73,75 914
previous owner 68 Ghia, 74 Thing
P.O. Renault R8, R10s,R16s
P.O. 78 Fiat 128 4dr, 1200 Cabriolet
P.O. Triumphs 64 TR4 Sebring ed. & 76 TR6
European car enthusiast aka Nutjob |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:55 am Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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I like it! I think I could go for that.
It's definitely going to be a costly portion of the build. I don't know if I trust myself to do the top and make it look good so may be outsourcing that work. |
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buntist
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2019
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: 1962 Beetle Convertible - Baja to Original Conversion |
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Here is a rough mock up with the rear apron and decklid that I got.
This is kind of where I left off a while back. |
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