New Elring flywheel seal too loose.

[Tim Donahoe]

On another site, a guy showed a new out-of-the-box Orange Elring flywheel seal that was way too loose for his engine. Anyone else had this issue? No way was that seal in the video going to seal anything. The guy pushed it in and out with no resistance at all.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[vamram]

Did he lube it w/WD-40 or something? That makes it easy to install by hand w/almost no help from any special tool.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[KTPhil]

Fixed it for ya:

[modok]

My first response would be to measure the hole.
If the hole is the right size I'd try another seal.
probably equal chances of one or the other being the problem, maybe even both.
The seal is sold separately. if you need ONE try CB or ACN

[Tim Donahoe]

This guy’s video shows him taking the orange Elring seal out of the box. Then he sticks it in the hole. It doesn’t even slide in, but rather falls in. It fits as if he had something other than a Type 1 engine. I’m thinking it may be a Chinese counterfeit, or something.

He also shows the old VW seal that he removed. It fits snugly.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Tim Donahoe]

Okay, I was able to read the part numbers on the seals. The old one that fit had a VW symbol on it. Part # 113 105-245-2

The new Elring’s part # 113 105 245 FS.

This last is the one that was too small. The part numbers are the same except for the last part.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[modok]

Each seal does have a specification for what range of hole size and shaft size it fits.
Unfortunately elring being a more..... foreign outfit I don't have quick access to those specs.

[modok]

OR, maybe the seal is just WRONG.
Wrong happens.

If I may vent.....yesterday I'm assembling a toyota 2.7, with ITM parts kit.
The crank is ground .0005 oversize on both rods and mains, rod bearings have too much crush and are too tight. Main bearings have not enough crush and are too tight.
So, approching 100% wrong.

Today, tried daido brand bearings..... totally different. Crush is correct and clearances are at the high end of spec.

More and more I believing "ITM" is where defective parts go to be disposed of. There certainly is wrong out there.

[Floating VW]

I just put a new Elring main seal in mine last summer, and now that you mention it, it did slide into the case a LOT easier than those seals ever did before. I was able to push it in with just my fingertips (and a good thing too, since I couldn't find my installation tool). I like to smear a thin layer of Loctite 518 around the outside of the seal to lubricate things and help it go in, so I don't know how much that contributed to the ease of installation. But like I said, I don't remember it ever being that easy before.

Personally, I kind of prefer it that way. As long as it doesn't just drop in, I don't mind not having to really press it in. It would also be nice if I could remove it if I had to without having to destroy it.
_________________
"It's time you started treating people as individuals, rather than mathematically predictable members of an aggregate set, regardless of how well that works."

[andk5591]

I use Elring and the double lip German seals. Have no idea how many we install a year...dozen or more? Never ran into them being too loose. Well, maybe there was one that was not a hard to get in, but definitely not slip in. I usually get them from CIP1, but get some on occasion from other vendors.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[sjbartnik]

FYI I have just this very minute finished installing a new Elring German main seal and it fit nice and tight as always. To be fair, I did buy it a few months ago. Manufacturing date on the package is June 2018.

No VW part number on the box.

Dimensions on the sticker are 70mm x 90mm x 10mm.

Elring part number is 513.326.

_________________
1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Tim Donahoe]

I’d show you the video, but don’t know how to transfer it from Facebook to here. The Elring seal just slipped in the hole with no resistance at all. I have used nothing but Elring in the past, but no way would I put one in that’s that loose.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[modok]

If you put a lubricant on it, it will slip in with very little force, maybe two fingers.

As i was explaining in ANOTHER thread, this is why you DON'T put lubricant or sealant on it, it won't STICK right.

But sometimes you WANT that, and then choosing the right sauce can be critical. For rubber parts I often use a lubricating soap. It's real slippery but within an hour it dries out and the rubber sticks fast in place.
518 would be my choice for a curing sealant, If the seal is loose, but make sure to prep the surface so it cures fast, and watch that it doesen't climb back out of the hole.

You can see how using a non-hardening sealant might bite you in the ass here. It never hardens So your NEW silicone main seal, or silicone pushrod seals, will SQUEEZE out later, and you will be sad.

You guys might think that mounting a tire to a wheel is DIFFERENt? than installing a seal, than installing an O-ring, but, it isn't, really it's exactly the same issues. Imagine a silicone tire. Not very good grip.

[sjbartnik]

[Tim Donahoe]

Sj, if you look at one of my posts, you’ll see the part numbers on the old seal (the one with a VW symbol), as well as the new seal. Their part numbers are almost identical. When the guy tries to put the old seal back in, its very snug. The new Elring slips in with no pressure to speak of.

I’m thinking he, either got a bad one from the production, or he got a counterfeit.

I mentioned this as a warning to others, in case they run into the same problem.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Ovally]

[Tim Donahoe]

Ovally, the guy in the video hand installed (with two fingers, actually) the new Elring seal, a good 1/8th inch past flush. No installer needed.

By the way, I own that Jbugs seal installer. It works perfectly. But, I paid 25% less for it a few years ago.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Cusser]

In 2016-2017 I used crankshaft seal AC105288 from RockAuto (IAP, $3). Note that IAP is just a distributor of parts, not a manufacturer.

I was fearful of using a 15-year-old "new" seal I had still, fearful that the rubber may have lost some flex. Permatex Aviation on the outer edge, tapped it in evenly with a 1/2" dowel.

_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Cliff@BrownBags]

Hey guys!

I think the person in reference is me.

Here is my issue...

I’m cleaning up and resealing an engine that came out of a 71 super beetle. I pulled the rear main seal out and it was nice and tight and hard to get out, and went to install a new elrin rear main seal in. The elrin slides in with no pressure. Not tight at all. I then went to my local Napa and ordered a felpro. This seal is the same way. Then I measured the seals and the openings of the engine block. Nobody has seen this before so I’m hoping maybe you guys could please help. This is the last thing I need so that I can install the engine again.


The VW seal that I removed was nice and tight and measured 90.6mm
Part number 113-105-245-2
SABO O 1927 BR

The Erlin is 90.2mm

The felpro is 90.2mm

And the factory hole in the block is 90.3mm

So there’s a .4mm difference in my old and new seals and it makes a huge difference. I can literally slide the new seals in there with next to no resistance.

Any thoughts? I appreciate any info in advance.
_________________
its not about what you say you will do oneday, its what you do today that actualy means something.

[modok]

Hole is too big. Generally the seal bore is about 89.95 average size.