Rain Water In Snorkel, Burned by Engine?

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi folks.

If 2 days worth of heavy rain drips into the OE snorkel, can that amount of water get sucked past the air filter and be burned by the engine and cause a lot of white exhaust, power loss, engine cut out?

On my Jetta engine swapped '88 with Ford air box, when it rains heavily, first start of the day, what usually happens: exhaust is billowing white, engine looses power and will cut out a few times under load. This all passes pretty quickly then it runs fine. I have yet to see this happen on dry days.

I'm nearly certain water is causing this. I'm leaning towards water getting in the fuel tank but the way the van is parked overnight, a stream of water appears to come down through the passenger side rear grill. I wonder if it's getting into snorkel or in via a poor connection between snorkel and hose. IIRC, the snorkel opening faces rearwards.

Fuel injectors were serviced, regulator, etc are fine, I really doubt I'm burning coolant. I've put methyl hydrate in fuel tank but nothing conclusive from doing that.

Thanks

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[djkeev]

The low spot of the snorkel should have a drain hole drilled in it to allow such water to get out.

A little bit of water will cause what you describe but....
Too much water in the intake can easily destroy a good engine.

Dave
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[dobryan]

When was the last time you pulled the overflow/vapor tanks from the front wheel wells? In rainy conditions if the top grommets have gone bad water easily gets into the fuel tank.. BTDT.

This does not emulate the initial starting conditions you are experiencing but it is an easy way for water to get into the fuel....
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[?Waldo?]

How is the airbox oriented? It should be oriented so that clean air is pulled through the filter in a manner that will leave water behind and allow it to drain out on the dirty side. If it is a flat filter airbox it should be installed with the filter horizontal and the clean side above the dirty side. It should have an appropriate slope for the bottom of the box for the water to flow to a drain hole. For inspiration, this not-so-sexy curve was caused by an air filter system that even had a decent sized drain at the low spot.

Considering the performance issues you describe it is a significant concern.

Another common culprit would be the rollover valve gaskets in the top of the fuel expansion tanks. Those like to funnel water into the fuel system.

[82westyrabbit]

Hi Neil. As you know I basically copied your aircleaner design. I my case the air box is behind the left taillight instead of the right. Just by chance my air box Angeles down about 30 degrees towards the snorkel. I also have drain holes just like the air box did in the car it came out of. I am daily driving my van at the moment in Dallas TX in some pretty heavy and I am not having those problems. John

[Vanagon Nut]

Very helpful replies guys. Much appreciated.

dobryan, ?Waldo?

Yes, thank you. I am considering that there might be water getting into the fuel tank via a failed roll over gasket(s).

Ok, so, in some kind of overly determined manner, , though this hole is not a drain, I think, I plugged the hole shown (arrow) on my Ford Escort air cleaner. I think in the Ford, the lower opening where I attached hose acts, in part, as a drain. In the OE application, air is taken in via opening I closed off with duct tape and clamp. So bojangled. LOL.

I did not put a drain hole on flexible hose or air cleaner. D-oh! Now I know.

IF adding a drain and/or reconfiguring things cures this issue, I'll be extremely happy. Though the head checked out to be UN-warped at time I rebuilt the engine, since I'm a newb to rebuilding engines, my concern was that there might be some kind of intermittent coolant burning issue.

Neil.

Looking down through rear grill at flex hose where it joins snorkel. Lower 1/3 of snorkel is wet as is area near clamp. You can see rust at reenforcing spring in hose

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

[bluebus86]

Drilling a hole in a low spot of a snorkel system kind of defeats the purpose of a snorkel. When you drive thru high water, that low spot hole you drilled when submerged will suck water into the intake.

Perhaps you can add a 180 degree bend near top of the snorkel to keep water from getting in?

if water is getting into the tank, fix it asap so your tank dont rust, water in the fuel can cause other damage, such as ruined pump, rust contamination, clogs, etc...

use gasoline water remover, i.e. gas dryer additive in the meantime.

tank should be drained or use a good deal of the dryer after you fix the source of the water leak. you got to get that water out of the tank, water will stay in the low spots, and not be fully removed by the outlet port, unless dryer is used.

also water steam from the tailpipe can be normal in humid conditions, specially if van was been driven short distance i.e. not fully warmed up, on prior run, as an unwarmed motor will leave water build up in the cylinders, and exhaust system, muffler, which will be released as steam later, if atmosphere is humid, then a lot of vapor will be visible out the tail pile anyways, as water is a normal byproduct of combustion.

I had to replace my catalyst, with cold engine, started it and moved van 30 feet to place to work ln it, engine never got warm, pulled the catalyst off and drained about a 1/8 th cup of water out. and that was only from running van for less than a minute! water collected in the cold exhaust system, had I run van for 15 minutes, that water would have evaporated in the hot exhaust system, but being cold, it condensed in there.


also in cold weather with temp changes, night to day, , and humidity, i.e. rain, when the metal,of the muffler is colder than the air, say in morning as the air heats up faster than the steel,, water from atmosphere will condense on the muffler, inside and out, and that inside will run to the lowest part and pool up.


Bug On in a Van!
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[newerwesty1987]

Maybe look into a dust dump valve or duckbill (or Vacuator valve) that are on many industrial air cleaners. Allows water and dust out but closes when there's a vacuum.


https://www.donaldson.com/en-be/engine/filters/tec...ust-water/

[Vanagon Nut]

[tjet]

Maybe add a Syncro water trap?

[?Waldo?]

I guess it depends on your intentions. If you're planning on fording water deep enough to submerge your intake to the filter box then the drains will not work. If you're not planning on submerging your entire engine under water, then the drains and proper orientation of the airbox are the easy way to avoid hydrolocking the engine and bending your connecting rods. For some reason I don't think that Neil is planning on driving his westy through water 3 feet deep but I might be wrong about that.

[Vanagon Nut]

[tjet]

Be sure to check your gas tank expansion tank. IanNJ had an issue with his - the seals were gone allowing water to get in the fuel.

I think a lot of the "bad running" issues here are from contaminated fuel & gas tanks with sludge (not necessarily your problem)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=100

[Vanagon Nut]

[82westyrabbit]

I think if you drill the holes on the bottom your air filter housing your problems will go away. All so if you angle the air filter so the intake side is the lower than the engine side that would help to. Yes it is a pain to change or ck the air filter but it fits so nice in there mine is going to stay. If you really want to go to the Dodge air filter housing I have one I could send you if getting it across the border is not to much trouble. I also have a round air filter housing that will fit in the same space that I think comes from a Dodge as well. John

[Vanagon Nut]

[82westyrabbit]

Probably not. I shortened the air filter housing buy cutting the trumpet end off and fiberglassing over it. I also angled the snorkel fitting a little bit so it I could send it straight up the D pillar. All my fiberglass stuff was out for another project anyway. Somewhere in my photo gallery there is picture of it before I installed it. I also covered it with Dinomat to make sure I shut it up. John

[Vanagon Nut]

[82westyrabbit]

You have spent to much time with the red green show. They just do things different north of the border. That airplane was attacked by a bear. I think the owner left some food in it. That airplane was all over the aviation from’s at the time it happened. Thanks John