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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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 Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| Perhaps I misunderstood, I thought he was able to get much more rotation without removing and repositioning the distributor. Seems like he should now be able to get correct timing by simply turning it. |
If he tries to time it without repositioning the wires, he will be right back where he started with the nipple hanging up on the hose to the FPR. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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This is how the distributor sits in my 83 1/2 with a 2.1L and Digijet. I imagine the distributor drive was installed according to the book, not sure if I rotated the distributor to get the vacuum can to clear the FPR or not. Been too many years to remember anything that trivial.
The distributor body is essentially 90° CCW of where yours started with the wires rotated 90° CW. This would work the same as what I have been telling you to do.
The 90° rotation is important, you can't do something like 30° or 45° just by turning the distributor and moving the wires. If you want to do something less, you have to lift and turn the drive. |
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jberger
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Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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Just a couple items...
1. Take a look at your cap and wire set. They do not appear to be compatible. The cap looks like an early style where the wire contacts the outer perimeter of the corresponding hole. While the wires look like the later "center post" style. That can create all sorts of issues. Check your plugs as well that the tip has been removed and the connector is seated properly.
2. What are the specs of the "rebuilt" engine you had installed? There may be issues that can never be solved.. sorry to say. Cofap pistons... bad cam timing or grind.
J |
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
This is how the distributor sits in my 83 1/2 with a 2.1L and Digijet. I imagine the distributor drive was installed according to the book, not sure if I rotated the distributor to get the vacuum can to clear the FPR or not. Been too many years to remember anything that trivial.
The distributor body is essentially 90° CCW of where yours started with the wires rotated 90° CW. This would work the same as what I have been telling you to do.
The 90° rotation is important, you can't do something like 30° or 45° just by turning the distributor and moving the wires. If you want to do something less, you have to lift and turn the drive. |
So can I rotate the diz and wires back like yours? The reason being that it would be a better fit. The hoses are kind of taut with it in its new position. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| stegosaurus wrote: |
So can I rotate the diz and wires back like yours? The reason being that it would be a better fit. The hoses are kind of taut with it in its new position. |
You don't want to copy my wire positions as my distributor drive is installed differently from yours.
Once you have rotated your distributor 90° CW and then rotated your wires on the cap 90° CCW, the wires are going to be back into the same relative position to the rest of the engine they started in.
Do pay attention to what jberger said about the cap end of you spark plug wires, VW used two different style and they are not interchangeable, they must mate to the matching style cap. The same applies to the coil, it has to match the wires. |
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| jberger wrote: |
Just a couple items...
1. Take a look at your cap and wire set. They do not appear to be compatible. The cap looks like an early style where the wire contacts the outer perimeter of the corresponding hole. While the wires look like the later "center post" style. That can create all sorts of issues. Check your plugs as well that the tip has been removed and the connector is seated properly.
2. What are the specs of the "rebuilt" engine you had installed? There may be issues that can never be solved.. sorry to say. Cofap pistons... bad cam timing or grind.
J |
Here's some pics of diz cap and wires. Tips have been removed.
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| So I gave it a try this morning. I got it to start but in order to get it timed anywhere even close the canister hits the belt. Am I doing something wrong? |
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stegosaurus
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Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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So I gave it a try this morning. I got it to start but in order to get it timed anywhere even close the canister hits the belt. In other words I need to turn it more clockwise. BTW hoses were off but it was very erratic. So I put them back on. Am I doing something wrong? Picture at idle. TDC mark way to the left.
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9798
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| stegosaurus wrote: |
| ...I need to turn it more clockwise... |
Turning it clockwise will retard the timing (less advance). Is that what you need? |
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| stegosaurus wrote: |
| ...I need to turn it more clockwise... |
Turning it clockwise will retard the timing (less advance). Is that what you need? |
Yes. Thank you for the clarification. But again it will hit the belt. Maybe I went too far and into the next quadrant??? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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You may end up having to lift and turn the distributor drive.
For timing at idle, 1050 rpm may be high enough so that you are already getting some advance and thus can not set the timing accurately, I think the spec is to set the timing at 850 rpm when doing it at idle. |
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stegosaurus
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Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
You may end up having to lift and turn the distributor drive.
For timing at idle, 1050 rpm may be high enough so that you are already getting some advance and thus can not set the timing accurately, I think the spec is to set the timing at 850 rpm when doing it at idle. |
I had the idle down to 900 and it wanted to die. So you're thinking distributor drive? That is something I don't want to attempt. I'll set it back to original position and back to the drawing board. |
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| I wonder if I can put the diz back and lift the FPR bracket somehow. Like by a 1/4 to 1/2 inch? Any ideas? I think I'll just try it and leave the bracket off and see if I can get it tuned. If I can then I'll work on a lifted bracket. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| stegosaurus wrote: |
| I wonder if I can put the diz back and lift the FPR bracket somehow. Like by a 1/4 to 1/2 inch? Any ideas? I think I'll just try it and leave the bracket off and see if I can get it tuned. If I can then I'll work on a lifted bracket. |
You might be able to just bend it forward a bit to gain a bit of clearance.
| Quote: |
| I had the idle down to 900 and it wanted to die |
This is one of the reason one typically gets better results when they time an engine at full mechanical advance, 28° BTDC @3800+ rpm. |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10077
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
You may end up having to lift and turn the distributor drive.
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Which he knew three pages ago, before this long bumpy ride to Hacktown.
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
You may end up having to lift and turn the distributor drive.
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Which he knew three pages ago, before this long bumpy ride to Hacktown. |
Lifting and turning the drive is beyond my skills. And I don't trust the local mechanics. So.... |
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Igeo
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Joined: September 25, 2018
Posts: 888
Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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With a dowel lightly jammed into the drive hole, you should be able to carefully lift ithe dist drive just high enough so the gears clear, the rotate and slide back in. Never done it on this engine either, but if one guy can do it so can you!
_________________
1987 Westfalia 2.1 WBX Manual |
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| Igeo wrote: |
| With a dowel lightly jammed into the drive hole, you should be able to carefully lift ithe dist drive just high enough so the gears clear, the rotate and slide back in. Never done it on this engine either, but if one guy can do it so can you! |
Thanks lgeo for the encouragement but...a big hell no. I don't want to take a chance. I could royally f things up if I recall correctly. |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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| stegosaurus wrote: |
| Igeo wrote: |
| With a dowel lightly jammed into the drive hole, you should be able to carefully lift ithe dist drive just high enough so the gears clear, the rotate and slide back in. Never done it on this engine either, but if one guy can do it so can you! |
Thanks lgeo for the encouragement but...a big hell no. I don't want to take a chance. I could royally f things up if I recall correctly. |
It's really not rocket science. Pull it up, rotate and let it fall back down. Nothing anyone other than you will do differently. For fun, you can remove the Fuel pump block off plate and see the end of the drive as you pull it. One time my local VW machine shop called me to help remove a dizzy drive. The thrust washer stayed on the drive and would not allow it to pull past the teeth on the crank gear. Good times.
Also, looks like your wires are correct. I have never seen the type of wire end that you have.
J |
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stegosaurus
Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2016
Posts: 98
Location: Sarasota, florida
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Timing a rebuilt 2.1 using digijet |
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[quote="jberger"]
| stegosaurus wrote: |
| Igeo wrote: |
| With a dowel lightly jammed into the drive hole, you should be able to carefully lift ithe dist drive just high enough so the gears clear, the rotate and slide back in. Never done it on this engine either, but if one guy can do it so can you! |
Thanks lgeo for the encouragement but...a big hell no. I don't want to take a chance. I could royally f things up if I recall correctly.
It's really not rocket science. Pull it up, rotate and let it fall back down. Nothing anyone other than you will do differently. For fun, you can remove the Fuel pump block off plate and see the end of the drive as you pull it. One time my local VW machine shop called me to help remove a dizzy drive. The thrust washer stayed on the drive and would not allow it to pull past the teeth on the crank gear. Good times.
Also, looks like your wires are correct. I have never seen the type of wire end that you have.
J |
I'm not confident I'd do it right. If there was someone there to guide me I'd attempt it. But Im not sure what to even look for. Then sticking a dowel rod in there...IDK.
I saw a post on here with the same wires and cap together last nite. Wish it were the wrong wires but that would be too easy.
BTW...you asked what motor earlier. It's a Rocky Jennings 2.1. |
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