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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:19 am Post subject: Number Weirdness |
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Looking through the Technical section, has 6 046 975 as about 13 December 1964, correct? The Birth Certificate has it February 1964.
Then to make even more interesting, the engine was manufactured about 5 July, 1964. Dad had all the original papers stolen which confirmed the engine was original. The paperwork said she either left the factory 12 July or arrived in Long Beach on that date.
So which is correct, the Technical section, the Birth Certificate, or the paperwork which is now lost?
Thank y'all in advance.
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Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69802
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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Did you mean to post this in your existing '64 Bug thread?
I think that is what you are talking about here but I feel like you could have posted more information for people to answer things.
Birth certificate, engine #, etc.
VIN # 6 046 975 looks to be mid-January, 1964 in the charts on this site.
I can't speak to the other stuff without seeing it.
Post the birth certificate - does it have the engine # on it?
The factory will verify the engine # is original when you do a birth certificate.
What's the engine #?
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Did you mean to post this in your existing '64 Bug thread?
I think that is what you are talking about here but I feel like you could have posted more information for people to answer things.
Birth certificate, engine #, etc.
VIN # 6 046 975 looks to be mid-January, 1964 in the charts on this site.
I can't speak to the other stuff without seeing it.
Post the birth certificate - does it have the engine # on it?
The factory will verify the engine # is original when you do a birth certificate.
What's the engine #? |
I thought separate threads were better, as would as questions in Ruby's thread and get no replies.
I see now I have the numbers backwards, will do it again.
As I said, Birth Certificate in such a safe place have yet to find it... (I found when clearing out Dad's and his "sister" put us through such hell, including trying to steal the house, everything is a blur.)
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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Now that have had two servings of well cooked oats, let's try again?
So if understanding correctly, Volkswagen in January 1964 produced 75,939 Beetles, or about 2,449.7 Beetles per a day. Ruby is number 10,783 in January, so that would be about 5 January, correct?
Original engine is 8 807 405.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation
Last edited by Adriel Rowley on Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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EverettB
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69802
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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Hopefully I get all these numbers and math right. 
First VIN # for January, 1964 is 6 016 121
Last VIN # is 6 092 060
6 092 060 - 6 016 121 = 75939 cars that month
75939 / 31 days = 2450 cars/day (rounded up)
Your VIN # minus the start of January:
6 046 975 - 6 016 121 = 30854
Your car was # 30,854 in January
30854 / 2450 = 13 (rounded up)
So built around January 13th but I don't think they worked 7 days/week so there is some leeway in there.
January, 1964 calendar
https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=1&year=1964
I agree 8 807 405 is July, 1964
It seems unlikely that is the original engine.
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Adriel Rowley
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Hopefully I get all these numbers and math right.
First VIN # for January, 1964 is 6 016 121
Last VIN # is 6 092 060
6 092 060 - 6 016 121 = 75939 cars that month
75939 / 31 days = 2450 cars/day (rounded up)
Your VIN # minus the start of January:
6 046 975 - 6 016 121 = 30854
Your car was # 30,854 in January
30854 / 2450 = 13 (rounded up)
So built around January 13th but I don't think they worked 7 days/week so there is some leeway in there.
January, 1964 calendar
https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=1&year=1964
I agree 8 807 405 is July, 1964
It seems unlikely that is the original engine. |
That is the trouble using used envelopes until totally filled, can loose track of what number is what.  Appreciate correcting the numbers and showing a slight, yet very obvious, error in the method. You sure seem to know my love for systems!
In January 1964, there was 23 working days.
75,939 Beetles divided by 23 equals 3,301.7, round to 3,302 per day.
30,854 divided by 3,302 is 9.3, or 10 January.
Seems unlikely, though in fact so far showing as original. Did order the technical sheet last week with the engine number, that should clear it. Consider the 12 July date Dad said was her Birthday (which he remember). Looking online, suggests shipping time from Germany to Long Beach about two to three months, meaning, if left Germany mid January, be in Long Beach mid March to mid April. In short, there is something weird with Ruby's dates and now because of a vending machine thief, only she knows.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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 How about checking the rear axle since at the factory they be a unit?
Let's use this thread to do calculations.
January rear axle numbers started with 6 467 371 and ended with 6 559 648, for a total of 92,277 rear axles. Ruby's is 6 496 969, or 62,679th, right?
92,277 divided by 23 working days gives about 4,012 a day.
62,679 divided by 4,012 gives 15.6, or 16 January, or four business days after the chassis. So despite the previous information, agree the engine is not original, though maybe a factory replacement?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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EverettB
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Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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Your rear axle is 6 496 969?
6 496 969 - 6 467 371 = 29598 not 62679
29598 / 4012 = 7.4 days
January 7th axle could match up with a January 10th car.
I don't know their lead time there but that sounds reasonable
Engine could have been replaced at any time.
The fact that it's the same year but a bit newer could be totally random
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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Your rear axle is 6 496 969?
6 496 969 - 6 467 371 = 29598 not 62679
29598 / 4012 = 7.4 days
January 7th axle could match up with a January 10th car.
I don't know their lead time there but that sounds reasonable
Engine could have been replaced at any time.
The fact that it's the same year but a bit newer could be totally random |
Wonder why my brain keeps revering, or maybe I just need a new calculator.
Dad bought Ruby September 1968 with the understanding was the original engine, remember he had all the paperwork. Someone from the Volkswagen aircooled days suggested a dealer demonstration who replaced it while they had it. This sounds interesting considering have a picture showing the seats upholstered in '65 and later square weave vinyl, maybe tide over until got in a '65 demo?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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harrymarlin
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Posts: 718
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Looking online, suggests shipping time from Germany to Long Beach about two to three months, meaning, if left Germany mid January, be in Long Beach mid March to mid April. |
I'd be interested in your shipping time research, as a previous thread I started suggested a couple of *weeks* to ship to the US:
| joe h. wrote: |
I have a letter from the factory regarding my car from the early 80's. It has some info that isn't commonly found on birth certs.
My car left the factory on Jan 7th 1954, and was delivered Jan 25th to Seattle. You can assume a few day for transport to the docks, and unloading. So about 15 days I would say. |
From thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716627&highlight=shipping
I'm not saying a three months is incorrect, but I am interested in where you found that information. I think they really wanted to move all of these cars quickly, as there was such a demand (and supply).
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1967 Ruby Red Convertible Beetle ("Becky")
ISO Albuquerque "Imported Motors" dealership paraphernalia |
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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| harrymarlin wrote: |
| Adriel Rowley wrote: |
| Looking online, suggests shipping time from Germany to Long Beach about two to three months, meaning, if left Germany mid January, be in Long Beach mid March to mid April. |
I'd be interested in your shipping time research, as a previous thread I started suggested a couple of *weeks* to ship to the US:
| joe h. wrote: |
I have a letter from the factory regarding my car from the early 80's. It has some info that isn't commonly found on birth certs.
My car left the factory on Jan 7th 1954, and was delivered Jan 25th to Seattle. You can assume a few day for transport to the docks, and unloading. So about 15 days I would say. |
From thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716627&highlight=shipping
I'm not saying a three months is incorrect, but I am interested in where you found that information. I think they really wanted to move all of these cars quickly, as there was such a demand (and supply). |
Harry, appreciate the information, didn't cross my mind to look here. That just furthers the mystery, as where was Ruby from early February when left the factory and arriving 12 July, 1964 in the port of Long Beach?
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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Adriel Rowley
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Location: Mesa, Arizona
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viiking
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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Probably on the showroom floor. Possibly a showroom car to show off the model or a customer demonstrator car or excess stock in the dealers.
My car was built in January(matching number car in the family since new) but not sold until October.
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
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Adriel Rowley
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Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 4748
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| viiking wrote: |
Probably on the showroom floor. Possibly a showroom car to show off the model or a customer demonstrator car or excess stock in the dealers.
My car was built in January(matching number car in the family since new) but not sold until October. |
Good to know, thank you.
And if was waiting, maybe explain the change in upholstery? Also, the engine was replaced during that time.
_________________
Please consider I am Autistic, so I process information differently and still working on social skills. Thanks.
Dad's 1964 Beetle purchased September 1968.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9252810#9252810
1971 Sunroof Squareback with Fuel Injection
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219811&highlight=squareback+rejuvenation |
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EverettB
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Posts: 69802
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Number Weirdness |
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| viiking wrote: |
| Probably on the showroom floor. Possibly a showroom car to show off the model or a customer demonstrator car or excess stock in the dealers. |
I had a '63 Notchback like that.
I'm not sure why but it wasn't sold for quite a while and the dealer even updated a bunch of stuff on it from 1963 to 1964 specs after the '64s came out.
I bought it from the original owner and he told me all the "upgrades" were how he bought it.
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