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UK Luke 72
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Joined: September 07, 2011
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:35 am Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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Did that 40 years ago.
Top wrench.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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People have been known to put access doors on inner panel for just that purpose....
Dale
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"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9772
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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Next time you have the engine out and a little time on your hands,
http://www.hookyspanelshop.com/our-panels/hipacs.html
I'm thinking of doing this.
Good Luck.
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I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
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UK Luke 72
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Location: Little Britain
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76940
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
Although I'd bung it personally  |
Did it.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
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Location: Hot Arizona
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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Full access:
I had to because my injectors stick out, too.
I did the little hole with bung for my carbed beetle. |
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UK Luke 72
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Location: Little Britain
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
| FreeBug wrote: |
Full access:
I had to because my injectors stick out, too.
I did the little hole with bung for my carbed beetle. |
Decent!
Why not just put the injectors inboard? |
But then they're not pointing down to the back of the valve....and I'm using DCNF pattern throttle bodies, not so many options. |
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UK Luke 72
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2867
Location: Little Britain
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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When I queried injector placement, the consensus was that it didn't really matter. I expect low speed/off idle to be slightly affected but I guess the uninformed (me) could argue the higher up/inboard injector has far longer to fully mix with the intake.
Who knows, several ways to skin the cat.
| FreeBug wrote: |
| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
| FreeBug wrote: |
Full access:
I had to because my injectors stick out, too.
I did the little hole with bung for my carbed beetle. |
Decent!
Why not just put the injectors inboard? |
But then they're not pointing down to the back of the valve....and I'm using DCNF pattern throttle bodies, not so many options. |
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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
When I queried injector placement, the consensus was that it didn't really matter. I expect low speed/off idle to be slightly affected but I guess the uninformed (me) could argue the higher up/inboard injector has far longer to fully mix with the intake.
Who knows, several ways to skin the cat.
| FreeBug wrote: |
| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
| FreeBug wrote: |
Full access:
I had to because my injectors stick out, too.
I did the little hole with bung for my carbed beetle. |
Decent!
Why not just put the injectors inboard? |
But then they're not pointing down to the back of the valve....and I'm using DCNF pattern throttle bodies, not so many options. |
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Look where the car industry puts them... |
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UK Luke 72
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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I don't feel knocked at all! I think you and others are right. It doesn't really matter. I imagine the industry does it for emissions?
Anyway, it forced me to make those access covers, and I am so happy I did, plug changes are a doddle, once you remove the rear tires (sorry, tyres), which I do anyway to adjust valves. Almost makes it fun, and keeping the skin on your knuckles is the "in thing" these days. I don't even hardly ever get burned these days, either. Boring. |
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UK Luke 72
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bugguy1967
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Joined: January 16, 2008
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Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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The closer you get the spray to the valve, the more control you can have over injection timing. That’s if you have a cam sync. Without it, you sometimes end up spraying the closed valve, so you waste more fuel.
And btw, I just learned this, as I’m getting into injection for he next engine.
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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
The closer you get the spray to the valve, the more control you can have over injection timing. That’s if you have a cam sync. Without it, you sometimes end up spraying the closed valve, so you waste more fuel.
And btw, I just learned this, as I’m getting into injection for he next engine. |
Are people now often running sequential injection? I'm still on old-fashioned batch fire. Oh, well.  |
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petrol punk
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Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 977
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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I have a cheap stamped sheet metal spark plug socket I bought off ebay. It's the style where they take a tube and expand one end into a hex, the other end just has a couple holes for you to put a screw driver through to turn it. I've had good lock with that on dual carb setups and an unmodified engine bay. PITA but also 100% do-able.
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FreeBug
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Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:14 am Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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| petrol punk wrote: |
| I have a cheap stamped sheet metal spark plug socket I bought off ebay. It's the style where they take a tube and expand one end into a hex, the other end just has a couple holes for you to put a screw driver through to turn it. I've had good lock with that on dual carb setups and an unmodified engine bay. PITA but also 100% do-able. |
That sound like the stock plug "socket" in the "modern" tool kit. Does this mean you manageto pull plugs without taking out parts of the intake Carbs, manifolds, or both)?
P.S. When i read "stock 36 hp '56 European delux oval" I started to drool so
bad...... you owe me a new computer! Where's the envious emoji? |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: Re: 1+3 spark plug access |
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| bugguy1967 wrote: |
The closer you get the spray to the valve, the more control you can have over injection timing. That’s if you have a cam sync. Without it, you sometimes end up spraying the closed valve, so you waste more fuel.
And btw, I just learned this, as I’m getting into injection for he next engine. |
Yes....
And yes....injector spray angle DOES matter. But there is no rule for it. You will find engines that run at different rpms, have different port velocity ....use paired injection, batch fired injection, constant injection.....have different load sensing.....MAP, MAP + MAF or hotwire or hotwire + MAP.....have vacuum indexed fuel preszure or not.
All of these things affect running from millisecond to millisecond....which affect airflow and map....which affect signal and fueling. Leverage all of that with cam and rpm range (say constant high rpm versus light to light,street driving).......and all or that makes a difference when leveraged by injector position and spfay pattern.
Anyone who tells you that one way is ALWAYS correct....will be right on some applications and totally wrong on others.
Spray pattern width, droplet size and distance from valve and port wall can all make a difference.
The problem with valve carbonizing in modern direct injection engines....some 9f them are solving this with "dual injection"....meaning a normal set of low pressure upstream injectors that only run at certain times or cycles.....just for keeping the valves clean. Ray |
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