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What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp?
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thomas.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

I used the copper rings from a new box of good quality gaskits from WW in my 40hp 1385 bb.I didn't have any trouble with sealing & I use the stale air heater boxes with no smell or emissions. I switched the heads to the late '65 40hp heads.

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earthquake
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

If the sealing rings are solid copper heat them with a torch until they are a dull red to anneal them, then they should work.

eQ
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

I used 40 hp rods that had about .020" milled from each side of the big end . The stock 40 hp cylinder holes on the block and cylinder heads remain stock size as a factory 40 hp . I just have a set of slip in 40 hp big bore jugs in there as well . I need to find those copper stale air rings for the cylinder head to barrel seal . The aftermarket ones are junk because they are to hard and will not allow the cylinder to seat in the head correctly . When all of the mock-up is done on the prototype parts the top end will be removed , cleaned thoroughly , reassembled and adjusted . I just need to source some O-G stale air 40 hp head to cylinder rings ! 👍
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

I thought when you built a 1602 on a 40hp you used 36hp rods that are profiled machined on the big end of the rod so it would work on the 1600 based crank, this way you would still have 20mm pin bores to fit the 83mm BB pistons.

eQ
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Is that twin turbo?!?

So Frankenstein and so much custom fabrication! I love it!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

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You can be rest assured I'm using the 40 Hp upper tin when I'm stale air all the way ! 🙃
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

The big bore 83 mm piston's were modified to be semi hemi just like the heads . I did use a .075" shim for the barrels to get my desired compression ratio .
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

I donīt see the point, - except for the "challenge" If you go 69 or 74 stroke even with the stock 1200 rods and pistons, the stock 1200 tin doesnt fit anyway. If you go with 1300 sgl port heads, the tin needs to be altered too. 13/1500 tin is easily adaptable of course.
There are H beam rods on the market already which fits the 1200 "40" hp crank, for those who absolutely want that.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Busted-bolt wrote:
I guess this belongs here . My 1602 . It's almost done ! Lol
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Is that CIS on a 40hp? What is that all about?

What did that turbo come from? A key chain?

Holy SH*T I bet that will absolutely rip.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:15 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

I guess this belongs here . My 1602 . It's almost done ! Lol
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
fl59, my guess is that gregson has a set of European-market 1300 dual-port heads that started as of the 1971 model year on Beetles. Such engines were market-specific alternatives to the 1600 DP due to engine displacement taxing, insurance classifications, etc. Never officially sold here in the USA, but heads made their way over sometimes in batch used engines shipped from Europe by large engine rebuilders in the '80's and '90's. Those 1300 DP have the same, smaller cylinder opening to fit 40 hp big bore (BB) cylinders without any machining. I'd imagine that rebuildable DP 1300 heads are plentiful and cheap in England.

So with the BB 40 hp cylinders fitting right into those heads, any DP intake manifold would also be a bolt-on. On his engine he has DP Kadron manifolds. The only modification might be to shorten the carb linkage cross-bar because the 40 hp engine is narrower than a 1300 and later.


Thanks Rome, makes me wonder if the availability of 1300 heads "might" be a factor in the number of 40 horse hot rod engines I see overseas via those here in the states. Guess I'll just stick with modifying 36-ers for now!
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Rome
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

fl59, my guess is that gregson has a set of European-market 1300 dual-port heads that started as of the 1971 model year on Beetles. Such engines were market-specific alternatives to the 1600 DP due to engine displacement taxing, insurance classifications, etc. Never officially sold here in the USA, but heads made their way over sometimes in batch used engines shipped from Europe by large engine rebuilders in the '80's and '90's. Those 1300 DP have the same, smaller cylinder opening to fit 40 hp big bore (BB) cylinders without any machining. I'd imagine that rebuildable DP 1300 heads are plentiful and cheap in England.

So with the BB 40 hp cylinders fitting right into those heads, any DP intake manifold would also be a bolt-on. On his engine he has DP Kadron manifolds. The only modification might be to shorten the carb linkage cross-bar because the 40 hp engine is narrower than a 1300 and later.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Busted-bolt wrote:
Oh yeah Gregson1 What are those manifolds you used on the dual kadron K/G? They are pretty sweet!...


I'd sure like to know this too - that is a sweet hot rod 40 horse Gregson1 has.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Quote:
200mm 6V flywheel
Busted- I see this as the most difficult part to source, unless your car already has a 12 V system with a starter that meshes with your intended flywheel.

gregson- did you mean dual-port Euro 1300 heads? I don't think any 1200 engine (German or Mexican built) had anything but single-port heads. Impressive engine build!
Quote:
EURO 1200 heads (dual port)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

fl59bug wrote:

Tom I see that AA now has a 200mm 36hp/356/912 8 doweled flywheel. What do you think of those?


I'm impressed that AA this jumped on this, and a lot of other very limited usage parts for 36hp, 356 Porsche

I've not seen one, so have no experience.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

TomSimon wrote:
Busted-bolt wrote:
That is the million dollar ,what crank to use as a "core" to make said crank...


If you are ready to plunk down your money, give Jose at DPR a call (714) 979-7441. He's one of the few guys I know that will still entertain oddball VW cranks like this, and will back up words with hardware shipped out. He can tell you what will hold up, what won't, from real world experience. He's in Santa Ana CA though, costs are high, don't expect a $150 crank.

I've been to his shop, Jose is 'the real deal', he still does submerged arc welding, can add counterweights, normalize and heat treat, straighten, and balance. He even built a couple hybrid flywheels for me, 200mm Type 1 outer with 36hp/356 Porsche center hub, 8 doweled, for a 36hp build of mine. No one else wanted anything to do with the project.


Tom I see that AA now has a 200mm 36hp/356/912 8 doweled flywheel. What do you think of those?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
If you get a 69mm crank have the rod jounanls grinded offset to 36hp journals and it will give you a 74mm crank and than you can use the aapistons 36hp h beam journals ...your machine shop should know how to offset the crank journals to achieve the 74mm size with 36hp jounal size.... I emailed aapiston in the past and asked them about if they were gonna make h beam 40hp rods and from my email they said yes but don't know why they haven't got done... well I let time past " months "and not seen the 40hp h beam rods on there site so I emailed them again and asked and I was told no they never had plans to make any and I told him about my old email and sent it to them and it said well this coworker who emailed me back said you guys were and they emailed me .. if you make a big order of them we can get them ..but I told them well then if I'm gonna be the only buyer I want my name on them not yours but i never got a reply ...so I left it as is .... but they wanted me to buy a big bundle which was expensive ..... maybe if someone cashes a big check we than can see 40hp h beam rods around ....


I'm eager to try this. I need a good used OG (forged) 69mm crank to start with, then a second set of AA 36hp H-beam rods. I already have a set of those rods going in my Okrasa 36 build. The whole process is explained really well in the "How To Hotrod" Fisher book, but it makes sense when you see that the standard, unground 1600 rod journal is 2.164" while the 36hp has 1.968 if standard. The difference is .196" which is roughly 5mm, which is how much the stroke will lengthen when offset grinding the 40hp rod journal.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Busted-bolt wrote:
That is the million dollar ,what crank to use as a "core" to make said crank...


If you are ready to plunk down your money, give Jose at DPR a call (714) 979-7441. He's one of the few guys I know that will still entertain oddball VW cranks like this, and will back up words with hardware shipped out. He can tell you what will hold up, what won't, from real world experience. He's in Santa Ana CA though, costs are high, don't expect a $150 crank.

I've been to his shop, Jose is 'the real deal', he still does submerged arc welding, can add counterweights, normalize and heat treat, straighten, and balance. He even built a couple hybrid flywheels for me, 200mm Type 1 outer with 36hp/356 Porsche center hub, 8 doweled, for a 36hp build of mine. No one else wanted anything to do with the project.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Oh yeah Gregson1 What are those manifolds you used on the dual kadron K/G? They are pretty sweet! Smile And yeah I'm using a 7140 counter weighted crank in my build with AA 83 mm big bore P/C . The skirts were counter cut to clear only on the pin side leaving the "tilt" side of skirt intact.I did however run in to problems on the #3 case land and it had to be filled for proper clearance of the skirts.I did not run in to any problems with the crank to piston clearence how ever. I debated on going a smaller bore stock 40 hp P/C s but the tilting part of the skirt was much longer than the more modern AA 83s that I had and it would have affected the strength of the piston when used with a 74mm crank.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What about 1602 74x83mm 40 hp? Reply with quote

Im deep in to my next build 83x74 in a forty horse with no shims. A stock manifold will work. I'm going for what the engineers who worked for Lycoming and Continental were working toward. The valves were rather small compared to displacement and the carburetor on a Lycoming O-540 is smaller than an early rabbit 1.5L.. By the way that 540 was 540 cubic inches,so my engine being intended for use in a bus should be perfect! Wink
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