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So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, small updates
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rah253
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, small updates Reply with quote

fl59bug wrote:
I know its a little off topic, but I LOVE the blacked out cal-look window rubber with black sunroof cover. I personally want a tan/beige '63 rag one of these days and I'll give it the same black on black treatment.

Also I love the wheels on the other car. Are those Empi-style 5 spokes or 8 spokes, or torque-thrust style?


Hey thank you for that! I felt the same way, a little hesitant at the start but decided to go for the Cal look since the rag is black and the car will retain it's patina anyways, with a little chrome, thought it would be great. The other reason is also for the fact that the chrome trim is a pain to install when doing window install from what i heard so double bonus there.

The wheels on my son's 66 are in fact Empi 5! He is waiting on a 5 inch narrow beam so he can lower it. the car has disc break all the way around, so it needs a narrow beam to come down.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, small updates Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Going for the 1776 engine is probably a wise move given your time frame to get the Beetle driveable. Do you have details from the seller as to the internals, and what parts are new? Will you keep the single stock carb to get it running?

Where did those Weber DCN or DCNF carbs and manifolds come from? Cool Or is that a single center-mount carburetor since you are also showing stock DP end castings?

As to the heads on your original engine, I also think you can save them with a good cleaning. Good practice on how to save parts that seem too far gone at first glance and build up the original engine when you have time. I have saved at least 3 pairs of used heads that had similar amounts of corrosion/debris in them.
-I first wash the heads in solvent (5 gallon HW store plastic bucket with 1/2 gallon of either kerosene or mineral spirits) with a regular fiber-bristle cleaning brush, to get the oil and grease off.
-Next use a hand-held BRASS bristle brush. I have 2 sizes; one like a large toothbrush, and the other is larger with the bristle row length about 3". Both of those will get a lot of the crap off the combustion chambers; and the small one for the intake port edges.
-Dry off the heads, and use a round brass bristle brush wheel in a variable speed drill (wear safety goggles) to get into the combustion chamber contours and corners. Should do the trick.
-Once the valves are out, I use the same tools to get to the valve seats. Don't use steel bristle brushes, because those can dig into the aluminum.

In this shot, the right front fender's rear lower contour of the wheel opening is sticking out too far. You can gently push the fender inwards toward the center of the car with your hands, so that the contour is "vertical" instead of tilting outward towards the bottom. Usually just one hand at the lower corner bend (transition to the horizontal lower edge) and the other hand just above it will be enough. Then check the driver's front fender if similar.
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Hey thanks for the reply. I also think that going for the 1776 was the better choice for sure, and a little more HP is nice as well. actually traded plus a little cash the old bare block and heads for the carburators and the intake you see pictured. Yes it's for center mounted.

I posted another post with the carbs details and the issues i'm running into. I got a 32 36 progressive Weber with the intake and was given the 44 DCNF carb in case the other one wasn't working. Well, the 32 36 needs a rebuilt and the 44 don't fit on the intake of course... I'm trying to see if i can find an intake that would mount that 44. I got family that gave me another 32 36 progressive that is good but needs a few brackets, got to figure which route to take at this point. I researched a little bit and a lot of people like the 44 with the 1776. I guess i will do with what is available first and go from there.

Thanks for the hints on cleaning the old block but like i said i traded it so no go on this for now. Once the car is running and functions properly, i was actually thinking of picking up an old motor to rebuilt, not necessarily to run it in our car but just to learn really!

Thanks for the hint on the fender, i did not even got to that yet or noticed it. I will definitely follow your input and address it prior to installing the running boards back on her.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, small updates Reply with quote

I know its a little off topic, but I LOVE the blacked out cal-look window rubber with black sunroof cover. I personally want a tan/beige '63 rag one of these days and I'll give it the same black on black treatment.

Also I love the wheels on the other car. Are those Empi-style 5 spokes or 8 spokes, or torque-thrust style?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, small updates Reply with quote

Going for the 1776 engine is probably a wise move given your time frame to get the Beetle driveable. Do you have details from the seller as to the internals, and what parts are new? Will you keep the single stock carb to get it running?

Where did those Weber DCN or DCNF carbs and manifolds come from? Cool Or is that a single center-mount carburetor since you are also showing stock DP end castings?

As to the heads on your original engine, I also think you can save them with a good cleaning. Good practice on how to save parts that seem too far gone at first glance and build up the original engine when you have time. I have saved at least 3 pairs of used heads that had similar amounts of corrosion/debris in them.
-I first wash the heads in solvent (5 gallon HW store plastic bucket with 1/2 gallon of either kerosene or mineral spirits) with a regular fiber-bristle cleaning brush, to get the oil and grease off.
-Next use a hand-held BRASS bristle brush. I have 2 sizes; one like a large toothbrush, and the other is larger with the bristle row length about 3". Both of those will get a lot of the crap off the combustion chambers; and the small one for the intake port edges.
-Dry off the heads, and use a round brass bristle brush wheel in a variable speed drill (wear safety goggles) to get into the combustion chamber contours and corners. Should do the trick.
-Once the valves are out, I use the same tools to get to the valve seats. Don't use steel bristle brushes, because those can dig into the aluminum.

In this shot, the right front fender's rear lower contour of the wheel opening is sticking out too far. You can gently push the fender inwards toward the center of the car with your hands, so that the contour is "vertical" instead of tilting outward towards the bottom. Usually just one hand at the lower corner bend (transition to the horizontal lower edge) and the other hand just above it will be enough. Then check the driver's front fender if similar.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, more updates! Reply with quote

Well, after a week at home due to what is going around and i already had 2 days off planned, i was able to make head way in the project.

I picked up a 1776cc block to start building an engine. My 1600cc that i got with the car (not in the car) was going to require a full rebuilt and due to my time frame on the project, i decided to pick up another block for it. The price was attractive and also the fact to go to a 1776 set up with dual port was hard to pass.

This being my first ever aircooled build, it is taking me a little more time then previewed of course but i am learning a lot. My 2 boys are full on with the project as well and it is nice to spend some time in the shop with those 2!

So far, we have installed new seals on all the windows, i redid the whole brake system on the car, including master cylinder, lines, fitting etc... We have also built the motor to be ready to get in the car soon after we solve the fitting issue for the carb (different post), halfway through figuring out the electrical system and wiring, and acquired all the parts to finish the build which that was a chore to say the least! Next week i will be working on it for 2 days and hoping to progress much more. Here are some pictures, including my son's 66!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
rah253 wrote:

Hey thanks for your reply! maybe im not catching something. My block is a 1600cc already. I would love more grunt either way, but being my first aircooled project i am trying to be careful! Laughing
Sorry, it was late. I was looking at the single port heads and thinking you still had a 1200. Embarassed


No worries, i wanted to make sure i didn't miss something!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
pastellgreen wrote:

Does a 28 PICT need another jetting for this setup?
When I did it way back in about 1985, I also had a header. I asked a friend of mine who had worked at a VW dealership as a mechanic about jetting for the bigger cylinders. He said, "Most folks just bolt 'em on." so that's what I did. Very Happy Never had a problem with it up until the car was totaled (but still drivable) a few years later. Got really good highway mileage too.


Thank you!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

pastellgreen wrote:

Does a 28 PICT need another jetting for this setup?
When I did it way back in about 1985, I also had a header. I asked a friend of mine who had worked at a VW dealership as a mechanic about jetting for the bigger cylinders. He said, "Most folks just bolt 'em on." so that's what I did. Very Happy Never had a problem with it up until the car was totaled (but still drivable) a few years later. Got really good highway mileage too.
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mark tucker wrote:
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

rah253 wrote:

Hey thanks for your reply! maybe im not catching something. My block is a 1600cc already. I would love more grunt either way, but being my first aircooled project i am trying to be careful! Laughing
Sorry, it was late. I was looking at the single port heads and thinking you still had a 1200. Embarassed
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mark tucker wrote:
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
I'm pretty much in agreement with all of this. A couple of small things. You can bolt on a set of 83mm cylinders and pistons to bring it up to 1380cc IIRC (maybe 1385?). Probably about the same cost as a stock set. Also, if the rocker arms you have are the originals then they have a 1:1 ratio. You could replace them with a set from a later 1500/1600cc motor. Those are 1.1:1 ratio. It will give the motor a bit more grunt off the line. Not much, but I did it on my 63 and I could feel it in the Butt-dyno. Smile


Does a 28 PICT need another jetting for this setup?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
rah253 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I figured something seemed off with the connectors for sure. I thought maybe since the previous owner went with this 1600CC and convert it to 12V he needed that? i don't know... As far as the case is concerned, if i am to work on this engine the plan was to disassemble it all anyways, and rebuilt from ground up. I was trying to see if the value of rebuilding it all was worth it vs finding a turnkey engine or not, and how long would it take me to do so. I have a planned week of coming up at the end of the month dedicated mostly to this project. Replacing the head on that side might be the right thing to do if i decide to rebuilt it. thanks again.

The OG style connectors will work with 6v and 12v sealed beam bulbs, the three prong layout is the same for both.

Given the time frame you've set for this project, I would stress that the sooner you can completely tear down the engine to evaluate the case the better off you'll be, especially if it needs machine work and nobody local can do it. An hour or two of work from where you currently have it should be sufficient to tear it down and snap some pics to post up for input. If you don't have measuring tools available to gauge the case and parts, a quick look at the numbers stamped into the bearing shells will likely give you an idea of what's been done during previous rebuilds.


Ok thanks. I am going to take the case apart, hopefully before my week off that way i can plan ahead on what to do as far as that week is concerned. I will post pics as well. I do not have a measuring tool but i will look at the bearing shells for that.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

rah253 wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I figured something seemed off with the connectors for sure. I thought maybe since the previous owner went with this 1600CC and convert it to 12V he needed that? i don't know... As far as the case is concerned, if i am to work on this engine the plan was to disassemble it all anyways, and rebuilt from ground up. I was trying to see if the value of rebuilding it all was worth it vs finding a turnkey engine or not, and how long would it take me to do so. I have a planned week of coming up at the end of the month dedicated mostly to this project. Replacing the head on that side might be the right thing to do if i decide to rebuilt it. thanks again.

The OG style connectors will work with 6v and 12v sealed beam bulbs, the three prong layout is the same for both.

Given the time frame you've set for this project, I would stress that the sooner you can completely tear down the engine to evaluate the case the better off you'll be, especially if it needs machine work and nobody local can do it. An hour or two of work from where you currently have it should be sufficient to tear it down and snap some pics to post up for input. If you don't have measuring tools available to gauge the case and parts, a quick look at the numbers stamped into the bearing shells will likely give you an idea of what's been done during previous rebuilds.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

SBD wrote:
mukluk wrote:
The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.
I'm pretty much in agreement with all of this. A couple of small things. You can bolt on a set of 83mm cylinders and pistons to bring it up to 1380cc IIRC (maybe 1385?). Probably about the same cost as a stock set. Also, if the rocker arms you have are the originals then they have a 1:1 ratio. You could replace them with a set from a later 1500/1600cc motor. Those are 1.1:1 ratio. It will give the motor a bit more grunt off the line. Not much, but I did it on my 63 and I could feel it in the Butt-dyno. Smile


Hey thanks for your reply! maybe im not catching something. My block is a 1600cc already. I would love more grunt either way, but being my first aircooled project i am trying to be careful! Laughing
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.

The electrical terminal does appear to be of the type used in '67+ headlight connectors. Earlier Bugs would have used a different connector with spring loaded terminal connections like this: http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111941165C


Thanks for the reply. I figured something seemed off with the connectors for sure. I thought maybe since the previous owner went with this 1600CC and convert it to 12V he needed that? i don't know... As far as the case is concerned, if i am to work on this engine the plan was to disassemble it all anyways, and rebuilt from ground up. I was trying to see if the value of rebuilding it all was worth it vs finding a turnkey engine or not, and how long would it take me to do so. I have a planned week of coming up at the end of the month dedicated mostly to this project. Replacing the head on that side might be the right thing to do if i decide to rebuilt it. thanks again.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

mukluk wrote:
The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.
I'm pretty much in agreement with all of this. A couple of small things. You can bolt on a set of 83mm cylinders and pistons to bring it up to 1380cc IIRC (maybe 1385?). Probably about the same cost as a stock set. Also, if the rocker arms you have are the originals then they have a 1:1 ratio. You could replace them with a set from a later 1500/1600cc motor. Those are 1.1:1 ratio. It will give the motor a bit more grunt off the line. Not much, but I did it on my 63 and I could feel it in the Butt-dyno. Smile
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mark tucker wrote:
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag, update. Reply with quote

The pistons and cylinders are easily replaced (and yours need to be). Your heads may be able to be rebuilt though some more cleaning and disassembly is needed first, you may consider replacing the one head anyway due to the multiple broken cooling fins. Rocker assemblies and pushrods look like they just need a good cleaning. I'd lean toward replacing the bent pushrod tubes, they're fairly cheap anyway. On the outside the case seems to be decent and appears to have case savers installed, you'll need to split the case still and measure/inspect it further along with the internals. Overall it doesn't look too bad just from the pictures you've shown so far.

The electrical terminal does appear to be of the type used in '67+ headlight connectors. Earlier Bugs would have used a different connector with spring loaded terminal connections like this: http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111941165C
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

So my boys decided to come over and help out with the project which was awesome. As i mentioned before, i try to turn by hand the crank to only being able to go thru one compression and the motor locking up. Well, we decided to take the heads off and sure enough it looks bad. Previous owner must of not stored the engine properly or i'm not sure what to be honest. It looks like a head gasket blew up in a water cooled engine... Anyways a little input from you guys would be appreciated.

1) Seeing the pictures, do you see any salvation for that engine?
2) If not, salvageable parts?
3) With a deadline of June for it to run, should i just turn it in as a core and get a turn key? (financially would be the only big thing i could do outside of little stuff around the car)
4) outside of the obvious water damage, does anyone see something else that i am not catching on?

Also, is the connectors posted in the pictures for the headlights?

Thanks for your time.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Well, a little update. After taking off a few thing and centering it on my work bench, i went and tried to turn the crank by hand to see if it was turning smoothly. It went about half way with one compression feel before completely locking up! There is definitely something playing interference here, and that is turning it at its proper rotation or reverse, it just locks at a certain point.

My son went ahead and drain the oil and it was a mix of water and oil, a bunch of water dumped first before the oil.

we decided to start taking the engine apart. To take the fan shroud off, the compressor has to come off but no can do! after heating it up with a torch and using a pry bar we finally got it off but not after breaking the bolt on the compressor side, pretty crazy how tight it was on there. I guess we will also need some new hardware...

I will update with what i find once fully taken apart.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

robert hogaboam wrote:
Looks good from distance !! 4 wheel disc brakes and short axels to fit wider Porsche wheels. 1835 with new carb. No headliner. Just a good running low car. Hauls my boards to the beach and is fun to drive. The other one is a 67 almost all stock.
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Well from a distance maybe, but still in better shape then mine! Your 67 is amazing as well!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: So it starts now, the rebuild of our 63 rag Reply with quote

Looks good from distance !! 4 wheel disc brakes and short axels to fit wider Porsche wheels. 1835 with new carb. No headliner. Just a good running low car. Hauls my boards to the beach and is fun to drive. The other one is a 67 almost all stock.
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