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My first type 3 - 1973 Squareback
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QRP
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:51 pm    Post subject: My first type 3 - 1973 Squareback Reply with quote

Didn't need another project right now but I could pass up a killer deal.
My first type 3

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Sqrbckguy38
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Congrats, but she looks rough eh? What are you going to do with it?
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Looks straight..so do tell what is the killer deal? <1000?
Squares are nice when completed.
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QRP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

gt1953 wrote:
Looks straight..so do tell what is the killer deal? <1000?
Squares are nice when completed.


A good friend had it stashed in his dad's garage for the last 5 years, dad wanted it out so homie just gave it to me. . . . 😁
My original plan was just pick up the motor and flip whatever was left but after I got a good look at it the plan instantly changed.
I had no clue it was even a roller.
Sometimes you just luck out. 😎
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QRP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

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Did some clean up on Sunday, looks like most of the parts are all there except for some interior stuff.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Nice headliner.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Looks solid, and fairly rust free, which is a good thing. It'll make a nice project., and it's a great start. And for the price, I can't blame you for not passing on it. Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Nice. I'd rather deal with a gutted interior than with rust any day.
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QRP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
Nice. I'd rather deal with a gutted interior than with rust any day.


I'm with you on that, I am not a body man.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

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Motor looks OK, some surface rust here and there but it spins freely.
I think all the tin is there but since this is my first I'm not sure.
You guys see anything missing??
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

I hope you got a coffee can with all the missing hardware for the engine/car? Twisted Evil


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Speaking of can of bolts... something I've slowly learned about assembling a Type 3 motor in particular, is the careful attention to fasteners.

You can buy "kits" but often these have inferior parts. Some areas to pay attention to are:
1) exhaust manifold nuts. These hold the heat exchangers to the heads. There are smaller-than-stock nuts made of brass or copper that are less likely to corrode in place, and give you more room for your wrench.
2) The bolts that hold the fan housing to the block and oil breather assembly are critical... if they come loose they make a HELLUVA racket, and you have to pull the muffler, housing, and fan to replace them! Clean threads and loktite (and the correct length bolts) are important here. Also mind torque values, these are easy to strip.
3) Check Bentley for the correct torque on the main fan nut. Bugs use something like 30#, but the Type 3 needs something like 90#. Many manuals have this wrong.
4) Have extra fasteners because normal engine e assembly takes 2-3 iterations to get everything just right, and you always want to use new fasteners.
5) Pay attention to the rear (small) heat exchangers... they need a special copper crush ring, and a special large/thin wrench to tighten them to the main muffler body. As usual, you want to fully assemble loosely to align everything, then tighten it all up.
6) Think about how you will access fasteners once the engine is in the car. Sometimes a cap bolt or hex bolt may work better than the usual "cheese head" screws. Lock washers come in various types and you should give it some thought. Captive is best for many if you can find them.
There are a few special tools to line things up like the fan, but there are also ways around this. Study your manuals and post your progress here so we can clue you in.

There are more that others will probably add to this list, but these things are absent most manuals, but make a big difference in your frustration level, both now and then later during your next service/repair.
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QRP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Speaking of can of bolts... something I've slowly learned about assembling a Type 3 motor in particular, is the careful attention to fasteners.

You can buy "kits" but often these have inferior parts. Some areas to pay attention to are:
1) exhaust manifold nuts. These hold the heat exchangers to the heads. There are smaller-than-stock nuts made of brass or copper that are less likely to corrode in place, and give you more room for your wrench.
2) The bolts that hold the fan housing to the block and oil breather assembly are critical... if they come loose they make a HELLUVA racket, and you have to pull the muffler, housing, and fan to replace them! Clean threads and loktite (and the correct length bolts) are important here. Also mind torque values, these are easy to strip.
3) Check Bentley for the correct torque on the main fan nut. Bugs use something like 30#, but the Type 3 needs something like 90#. Many manuals have this wrong.
4) Have extra fasteners because normal engine e assembly takes 2-3 iterations to get everything just right, and you always want to use new fasteners.
5) Pay attention to the rear (small) heat exchangers... they need a special copper crush ring, and a special large/thin wrench to tighten them to the main muffler body. As usual, you want to fully assemble loosely to align everything, then tighten it all up.
6) Think about how you will access fasteners once the engine is in the car. Sometimes a cap bolt or hex bolt may work better than the usual "cheese head" screws. Lock washers come in various types and you should give it some thought. Captive is best for many if you can find them.
There are a few special tools to line things up like the fan, but there are also ways around this. Study your manuals and post your progress here so we can clue you in.

There are more that others will probably add to this list, but these things are absent most manuals, but make a big difference in your frustration level, both now and then later during your next service/repair.


Thanks for the info KT
This will definitely not be a restoration, I don't wanna get hung up on heater boxes, fresh air tubes or stuff like that.
I'm gonna keep this as simple as possible so I can get it on the road.
After mobbing it a few weeks I can decide if I wanna keep it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Just to be clear, my advice is not about being "correct," it's to make assembly and later maintenance/repairs easier.
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QRP
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Just to be clear, my advice is not about being "correct," it's to make assembly and later maintenance/repairs easier.


Understood.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1840664
Looks like I will need all new hardware for the motor assy.
You think this kit is decent quality?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
I hope you got a coffee can with all the missing hardware for the engine/car? Twisted Evil


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It looks like ALL of the tin is there, so that's a bonus.
Yes, that kit from ISP West looks good. No idea on the quality, but like most everything else from ISP, it's probably good.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

That's a good start, but I'd add the 8 brass/copper exhaust buts, and a few extra hex-head tin screws like the cheese-head ones-- easier to get started on the reach of a long socket extension for some locations, rather than a long screwdriver. Use anti-seize as appropriate.
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QRP
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Upon further inspection looks like the motor has the wrong Air Deflectors, probably part of the reason he was having problems.
Lucky for me I had a set of OGs stashed away.
I think the only tin left to get are the ones that go over the manifold.
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Hopefully this weekend I can start taking apart the long block.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Looks like the entire thermostat assembly/system is gone as well.
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: My first type 3 Reply with quote

Those are the a type 3 pancake engine tins for sure. Not sure what the engine had on it to start with. They are different then the type 1 engine sheet metal.
Oh most important don't throw anything away!
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
68 type 1
72 type 1
73 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 69 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})
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