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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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 Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:28 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
GKeeton good catch, yes if they are bosch solid core wires, it mess up alot of stuff around it with some serious emf. Spiral Wound is the best choice.
Getting a few spares is always good. But just for everyone else out there, 300-500mA output on a MSD6A or CRANE/FastE6 is perfect for street, and not gonna wear out caps and rotors soon enough to matter. Its gonna take double to make a difference even on a daily driver. IVKings has 4x the power im talking bout in this thread and his contacts are not bad in his rotor/cap. |
The energy won’t necessarily wear out the cap/rotor, but MSD stands for multiple spark discharge, right? If you’re mostly cruising around at an rpm where the multiple sparks are present, the wear of one arc becomes the wear of three. That’s what I’m referring to as extra wear. So, if you replace your cap/rotor every 10k miles, you may need to do it every 3k miles with a 6ALN. |
The same question works backwards, If i get 15k miles out of a cap and rotor with a MSD box does that mean that it wouild have lasted 45k miles on a standard ignition? Could be, but whatever the ryme or reason, real life examples including my own has not required a change in habits with cap and rotor changes because of having a CDI/Multiple spark box, as time would dictate the change of those parts anyhow regardless of miles.
If a person lets the car sit without driving much, this will have a larger effect of degradation then the MSD ever will. For the typical weekend warrior that drives their vw occasionally, their engine will run better regardless of a cap that only gets 12-15k miles(my experience), as it can burn the oxidation and crap off and keep a perfect running engine consistantly running perfect.
Not many can say "I put 30 k per year and have to change my cap and rotor 2 times, and that $25 i spent on a cap and rotor is so horrible". For the few in that position, the benfit they got from the good ignition out ways having to change their cap and rotor.
Nobody needs to change their cap and rotor in 3k miles cause the cdi is so harsh, these are all mild setups discussed in this thread, and match whats used on the street in a zillion other cars.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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VeloMikey
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012
Posts: 651
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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I re-read this thread last night. I think I am going to do what Norris did, Amazon MSD knock off distributor, Crane HI6N Box with the matching coil. FYI, the FAST box and coil went up in price. Should I go with the digital FAST box or find a good used Crane on Ebay? Should I stay away from the digital box? Last Piece of the puzzle is plug wires. What wires should I get? I want black or gray preferably from Summit not CB.
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Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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APPLEGREENVW
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Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 2387
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| VeloMikey wrote: |
| I re-read this thread last night. I think I am going to do what Norris did, Amazon MSD knock off distributor, Crane HI6N Box with the matching coil. FYI, the FAST box and coil went up in price. Should I go with the digital FAST box or find a good used Crane on Ebay? Should I stay away from the digital box? Last Piece of the puzzle is plug wires. What wires should I get? I want black or gray preferably from Summit not CB. |
Can’t give you any feedback on your box questions, but I’m not a fan of buying used electronics.
Summit has Taylor wires in black if you are able to install the ends yourself.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tay-83035 |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| VeloMikey wrote: |
| I re-read this thread last night. I think I am going to do what Norris did, Amazon MSD knock off distributor, Crane HI6N Box with the matching coil. FYI, the FAST box and coil went up in price. Should I go with the digital FAST box or find a good used Crane on Ebay? Should I stay away from the digital box? Last Piece of the puzzle is plug wires. What wires should I get? I want black or gray preferably from Summit not CB. |
The Fast E6 and Matching coil through Jegs for $329 is a great deal. Thats just over $200 for the CDi and Little over $100 for the coil.
https://www.jegs.com/i/FAST/244/6000-6405/10002/-1
If you are gonna buy new, its a great deal. Its digital, and has a better track record for lasting then the MSD digitals, plus has alot more power. I like the Analogs Cranes in this thread cause they are likely to outlast many digital ignitions, even when purchased used and been in use for years.
Just curious, why dont you like the magnaspark wires from CB?
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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The cb wires are just taylor wires rebranded fyi. Summit has a bunch of different sets. I've also bought a roll of wire and the ends and made my own set.
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
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Alstrup
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:53 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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Not sure of the resistance, but an 04008 rotor is simply a Bosch replacement for an 010/019 distributor.
John at ac.net used to actually modify the 0 resistance rotors by bypassing the resistor. They have been nla for a long time. |
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Alstrup
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Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7212
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
Not sure of the resistance, but an 04008 rotor is simply a Bosch replacement for an 010/019 distributor.
Well, that´s kinda what the link says.
John at ac.net used to actually modify the 0 resistance rotors by bypassing the resistor. They have been nla for a long time.
According to the website they are apparently back in stock. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| Alstrup wrote: |
| [email protected] wrote: |
Not sure of the resistance, but an 04008 rotor is simply a Bosch replacement for an 010/019 distributor.
Well, that´s kinda what the link says.
John at ac.net used to actually modify the 0 resistance rotors by bypassing the resistor. They have been nla for a long time.
According to the website they are apparently back in stock. |
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I guess he has started making them again now that CB has discontinued the Max Spark rotors.
The part numbers of 04008/04033 have modified after them. The above link you posted is for the standard resistor replacement. Pretty sure Bosch has dicontinued those rotors, so once the existing stock dries up, they will be gone too. Unless something is completely discontinued, ac.net doesn’t really have a good system of listing up to date in stock/out of stock, so it would interesting to see if they are actually available.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bosch-04-008-Ignition-Rotor-Fits-010-and-019-Dist-p/04-008-modified.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bosch-04-033-Modified-Rotor-043-905-225M-p/04-033-modified.htm |
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petrol punk
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 975
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was.
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36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
I’ve always the largest black bushing for the total advance. The lightest springs work well if your engine idles below 1k, but anything higher, and you may have to use a light silver, and a light blue to keep the timing from starting to advance. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
Engine specs? If you have alot of torque your car might fry tires with timing advancing soon. I like my timing to come in later to save my tires.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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petrol punk
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 975
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
Engine specs? If you have alot of torque your car might fry tires with timing advancing soon. I like my timing to come in later to save my tires. |
1835 with stock 40x35.5 CB 044 heads, dual 36drlas, stock rockers, W110 cam, and 1.5" exhaust. When I had an SVDA + bosch blue it definitely would chirp the tires easily, sometimes at accident at low rpms.
_________________
36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma |
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67rustavenger 
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 9755
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| petrol punk wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
Engine specs? If you have alot of torque your car might fry tires with timing advancing soon. I like my timing to come in later to save my tires. |
1835 with stock 40x35.5 CB 044 heads, dual 36drlas, stock rockers, W110 cam, and 1.5" exhaust. When I had an SVDA + bosch blue it definitely would chirp the tires easily, sometimes at accident at low rpms. |
This is a good question for the unknowing.
I fall into that category!
I run the springs as delivered on my MDS clone. They work good with my 1679. But I'm changing engines for an upcoming Drag racing event.
2180, Tim's stage II heads, 86b cam no advance or retard on the gear, a pair of JPM 48 IDA clones.
So I too am wondering what springs/bushings to use in my MSD Clone, Crane Hi6n CDI, Crane LX92 coil setup?
BTW, I really have been enjoying this ignition system. The engine runs so smooth and clean.  
Oh and one more dumb question. My CDI box LED indicator is red while the engine is running. Is this correct, or is it supposed to be a green LED?
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
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GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| petrol punk wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
Engine specs? If you have alot of torque your car might fry tires with timing advancing soon. I like my timing to come in later to save my tires. |
1835 with stock 40x35.5 CB 044 heads, dual 36drlas, stock rockers, W110 cam, and 1.5" exhaust. When I had an SVDA + bosch blue it definitely would chirp the tires easily, sometimes at accident at low rpms. |
In order to dial in the advance, you MUST be able to look at a tach or some way of knowing when your advance starts and ends. I look through my back window at my tach while reving the engine a few times, and after that i can hear what rpms are what, so right after doing that i can look at the timing light on the pulley and hear what rpm the advance starts and stops.
I am using the red advance stop and both blue medium springs. lots of advance, coming in slightly later then most.
After going through each advance stop, and each set of springs, My findings where that the MSD diagram for advance curve is slightly off. Its a good baselline, but its off. The red bushing should have given me more advance then i want, but turned out to be perfect.
If you had a engine very close to mine, i would say its a starting point, but since you dont, I would start in the middle with the medium springs and blue bushing and see where it actually is on your engine. Dont drive it, just test the timing with the light on it. End at 28 degrees total to start. After setting the total advance, go back and check your start/stop advance points and make sure your comfortable with that before driving it.
Its like jetting, we wish we could get the perfect tune by asking, but the ones that get the best reward always do the whole process start to finish and see for realz what works on their own setup.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
Engine specs? If you have alot of torque your car might fry tires with timing advancing soon. I like my timing to come in later to save my tires. |
1835 with stock 40x35.5 CB 044 heads, dual 36drlas, stock rockers, W110 cam, and 1.5" exhaust. When I had an SVDA + bosch blue it definitely would chirp the tires easily, sometimes at accident at low rpms. |
This is a good question for the unknowing.
I fall into that category!
I run the springs as delivered on my MDS clone. They work good with my 1679. But I'm changing engines for an upcoming Drag racing event.
2180, Tim's stage II heads, 86b cam no advance or retard on the gear, a pair of JPM 48 IDA clones.
So I too am wondering what springs/bushings to use in my MSD Clone, Crane Hi6n CDI, Crane LX92 coil setup?
BTW, I really have been enjoying this ignition system. The engine runs so smooth and clean.
Oh and one more dumb question. My CDI box LED indicator is red while the engine is running. Is this correct, or is it supposed to be a green LED? |
Hey there! Glad your getting some use out of it! Check out my response to the other post. For both of you, just fyi, the msd springs/bushing selection is slightly different then what comes on/with the billet copy. I chose to order a MSD 8464 bushing/spring advance kit for $20 to get more selection. https://www.ebay.com/itm/221651270730?epid=214875236&hash=item339b71fc4a:g:-Y4AAOSwyApcLPcI
After trying different combos (make sure to not get crazy and let it ping under load) you will find your engine gives you more of what you want with one of the combos (and you will under stand why). The bushing is tricky to get out, but after you do it once its not so bad the next times.
The red light is normal, just means its on.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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petrol punk
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007
Posts: 975
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| petrol punk wrote: |
| What are you guys running for retard bushing/spring/total advance with your MSD dizzys? I had the largest retard bushing, stiffest spring, and total advance set to 30* and it was garbage. Could barely start, wouldn't idle, lots of backfiring, felt like power was cut in half. I only drove it up my street so I only hit probably 3k rpm. I'm guessing I need to install softer springs because it's not advancing fast enough, my timing light has no tach so I have no idea what rpm full advance was. |
Engine specs? If you have alot of torque your car might fry tires with timing advancing soon. I like my timing to come in later to save my tires. |
1835 with stock 40x35.5 CB 044 heads, dual 36drlas, stock rockers, W110 cam, and 1.5" exhaust. When I had an SVDA + bosch blue it definitely would chirp the tires easily, sometimes at accident at low rpms. |
This is a good question for the unknowing.
I fall into that category!
I run the springs as delivered on my MDS clone. They work good with my 1679. But I'm changing engines for an upcoming Drag racing event.
2180, Tim's stage II heads, 86b cam no advance or retard on the gear, a pair of JPM 48 IDA clones.
So I too am wondering what springs/bushings to use in my MSD Clone, Crane Hi6n CDI, Crane LX92 coil setup?
BTW, I really have been enjoying this ignition system. The engine runs so smooth and clean.
Oh and one more dumb question. My CDI box LED indicator is red while the engine is running. Is this correct, or is it supposed to be a green LED? |
Hey there! Glad your getting some use out of it! Check out my response to the other post. For both of you, just fyi, the msd springs/bushing selection is slightly different then what comes on/with the billet copy. I chose to order a MSD 8464 bushing/spring advance kit for $20 to get more selection. https://www.ebay.com/itm/221651270730?epid=214875236&hash=item339b71fc4a:g:-Y4AAOSwyApcLPcI
After trying different combos (make sure to not get crazy and let it ping under load) you will find your engine gives you more of what you want with one of the combos (and you will under stand why). The bushing is tricky to get out, but after you do it once its not so bad the next times.
The red light is normal, just means its on. |
Thanks for the link! My chinese MSD came with 3 different spring setups (Though the softer 2 springs feel very similar) and 4 bushings, but the color coding is totally different. I might try that MSD kit but we'll see if I can get it running good with what came with the dizzy.
_________________
36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma |
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APPLEGREENVW
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posts: 2387
Location: Seekonk,Massachusetts USA
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3461
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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Hey you got one of the 6ALN's! Very cool! That bosch blue wont let alot of spark fly but im guessing your just trying to see if it all works.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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