Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo

[Alstrup]

[Paul.H]

The OP has a stock 1600 which work fine with a regular ignition from the 70's.
Arc welder ignitions came into fashion in the late 60's to fire off the huge bore V8 muscle cars with piss poor mixture control and leaded gas- leave them there

[boostretard]

I didn’t try a Bosch red coil, so can’t comment there.
The guiding principle observed in the (admittedly short term) testing of many coils with and without cdi is that any coil will do better, and ironically run cooler, with a CDI juicing its primary circuit. Fast phone support said the CDI would literally detonate a stock style coil. A well hedged bet, and funny, but wrong.

Btw the other principle observed was that a bigger coil doesn’t just provide “sufficient” spark to jump the gap. I had to see it myself to believe it, so, theory schmeory - the bigger badder parts had hotter sparks on all plug types but the Brisk show this off the best, which does equate to unshrouded spark kernels. Given that clocking washers are a thing, this seems to be a major design advantage.

The fast wires came with the plug ends already finished, and require the ferrule on the plug. I slipped the bosch air-seal donuts onto them. A massively easier task than the Taylor 409 donuts, for which in hindsight I would do the same thing (they seem melded in place but are removable). I like the Taylors but they’re a few hundred ohms per foot.

For the dizzy ends fast includes both boot types (straight and elbow) but only the stock vw style terminals, at least in the kit I got.

For the coil wire they provide one of each type of terminal.
Even for $20 it’s a deal.

[jpaull]

[jpaull]

If anyone has not noticed, Boostretard is new to the samba. This guy, keep your eyes on. Hes not a talker just saying anything to anyone and guessing about stuff.

He sent me a mesage with some ideas on some plug and ignition combos, and since hes only a few hours away, took a trip over and brought the brisk and pulstar plugs to try out on the tester. He tried on his own different boxes, plugs, even some different wires.

Within days, he swapped out to a Fast cdi (same output as HI6N and the fast E93 coil, then his wires and plugs. Trying to tell him to go backwards will not be productive. I noticed on 1679cc engine value that made it worth it also. This is why i dont hesitate to advise to give it a try for those that are actually curious, and drive their car to enjoy it. You WILL enjoy it more then a stock ignition.

He chose new, so it was around $400 for box and coil. Hi6 and others are $200 for box and coil used all day. Even a old analog MSD6a and a Blaster SS which can be had for less then $200.

What is too much? Well, The fast CDI is the limit really, if your trying to get more then 20,000 miles out of your cap and rotor. The coil is driven by the CDI, so your "rev limiter" for current output is limited by your box. If you buy boxes with more output, like the 7al2 PLUS, you can start reducing plug life. In my eyes, who the f@ck cares about a $25 cap and rotor when you have a nice gain, and in the light of everything else we buy for our cars. And plugs, buy good plugs.

Never fouling plugs again, no hesitation, instant response, less gas pedal to get the same power, more of it, yes....thats enough to warrant a upgrade on any size engine. But some like their old lower power ignitions, stock has value, and for those that are not wanting more, to each their own.

[Paul.H]

[boostretard]

[Paul.H]

[boostretard]

[74 Thing]

What was the outcome with the Pulstar sparkplugs?

[jpaull]

[boostretard]

[74 Thing]

The CDI and Pulstar looked pretty good.

What are your opinions with that plug and the CDI even if it has a resistor built in?

[boostretard]

[Alstrup]

If you have an ignition system that requires resistor plugs there can be an idea in using the Pulstar plugs. If you have vintage system like on ACVW´s Porsche etc. stay with the copper non resistor plugs or the Brisk which are silver. sure, irridium or platinum plugs will work, but the heat transfer in those metals are WAY poorer, so in order to stay at around the same plug temp you actually have to go maybe 2 heat ranges "colder" That is counterproductive.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[petrol punk]

Thought I'd update this thread. I got an old but never ran HI-6/PS-91 combo on ebay for a good deal and the ebay MSD setup back in spring. I was running a dieing bosch blue coil and standard coil and it couldn't spark when hot. I had to pop the decklid and let it cool for 15 minutes after every time I turned the motor off. I've since daily driven this setup all summer, including my usual commute to work on a record breaking 118* day. So far it only had one instance where it didn't fire up quickly after it was warmed up. Took some cranking but it did eventually fire up. The cold starts are pretty impressive, and it would idle all the way down to 500rpm but I run it at 800-1000 anyways. IMO it's a great budget setup and well worth the effort. Don't mind the mess too much I took these pics the day I got it installed.

_________________
36hp '56 European DeLuxe oval, '70 bug 1835cc dual 36DRLA, and a '98 4x4 5spd single cab Tacoma

[jpaull]

PetrolPunk, Nice! Glad you got something that works and fits your budget. I, and others appreciate the feedback.

One thing of interest, There is not many Crane hi-6, digital or not, that have a history of dieing early like the digital msd boxes. Not only that, it has more power then the msd 6 series. So there are many crane choices out there for a bargain. Even though they are used, they can live a really long life. I take note of seemingly trivial things, like is the anodized color faded, banged up, look like its been to helll in back being burnt living next to a set of headers or not.

[Paul.H]

[Alstrup]

I guess I must have been lucky. I have had 1 Mallory and 1 MSD go south on me over a period of approx 20 years.
Next. High performance parts dont last as long as stock parts do when they are used as intended.
Think of it this way.
How often do you tear down a stock, stockish or mildly tuned engine for inspection ?
How often do you tear down a race engine for inspection ?

Everything at its time. It is also not for everyone to use programmable ECU´s etc. While WS systems have their place, and I use them myself on milder engines they are not the best. That is still COP. And yes, there you can go source good units from several manufacturers. Typically the units from lean burn engines are really good. But, with both WS, CNP and COP you run into some other issues with spark strength. That said, most of the systems are powerfull enough to handle most anything we will throw at them.

As we have vaguely touched before, but not many pay much attention to, is emissions and burn quality. Once you begin to look in that direction a whole new world opens and you can litterally begin from scratch with understanding ignition. And NO, the old saying that a spark is a spark could almost not be further from the truth
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

[Paul.H]

I don't use or recommend coil on plug or coil near plug on any aircooled VW unneccesary complication and no advantage in the low rpm range of these engines. COP is used by OEM mainly for packaging and cost cutting in fact VW switched back from COP to waste spark on one of their engines.