Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo

[Clatter]

[Clatter]

So my Heater Beater motor needs some more spark,
And i got the whole Crane Hi6 etc. like Paul so graciously outlined for us here.
But,
I really really love the vacuum advance of the SVDA.
The better mileage, and brisk low-RPM pull are delightful.
Plus,
We live in Santa Cruz where you are either idling, or just off idle 95% of the time.
The other 5% you're slowly crawling along in 1st..

And, I'll admit it, the billet distributor just looks way too disco for my motor.

So,
my friend Damon gave me a Blaster SS he had lying in a box,
And an old analog MSD 6A came up locally on Craigslist.

Because it had a bit of corrosion, i gave the guy $30.

The lid was coming off, so i couldn't resist peeking in,
A bit of fuzz here and there, but still all sealed up in that clear goo.

MSD says in their instructions to not seal the lid on tightly,
because there is just enough gap at the wire grommets to cause condensation to accumulate.
FYI.

Rigged it up..

Zap!

Not as bright/snappy as the Hi6/LX92, but WAY brighter than the stock spark.

Was going to order up a non-resistor rotor, but it would cost more than the whole ignition.
Will be digging out the resistor and soldering in a solid wire soon.
We'll then fill it with epoxy just because.

Going to order a pizza to get the right building materials onsite for install.
Can't wait..

30 bucks!!

_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[jpaull]

Clatter, that is a budget ignition value/spark output record! lol awesome!

Analog 6A and Blaster SS is a very respectable combo. That blaster SS being e-core is double the output of the typical msd blaster coils, its a great match for value/money spent.

I love the creativeness of so many on here. Yes, lots of old reliable MSD boxes out there for very cheap, and as long as you dont hook them up backwords, or connect other items to your coil (cause its 450v instead of 12v now) these old boxes last forever.

[jpaull]

For the MSD boxes, these boxes are Analog and same output:

Old MSD 6T, 6BTM, 6A, 6AL, and a few others.

GM Performance parts stocks a MSD made clone of the 6A that is ordered to be matched with other GM performance parts. These come up on Ebay all the time for $100-$125. I confirmed with MSD that its same output, same multiple sparks, no rev limiter. Google GM 10037378 for those listings

One example here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384400411007

[jpaull]

If anyone wants some example on what coils and why, I made a rudementry coil linup that helps paint the picture.

From right to left, starting with the Bosch blue, its low spark output but very long spark duration. As you move to the left, for the most part, the spark output goes up, and the duration goes down.

The only exception, is that Smurf blue MSD 8253 U core coil. Because of its design that is so efficient, (and 10 years old now lol) it can give 450uS spark duration and 450mA of output. The spark duration is very long for that much output. And, it can be used with 6 series boxes. I like to use the crane box with that smurf blue coil, it gives it abit more punch then the 6a. Only drawback is that coil is $250.

Also notice from right to left. Low output/long duration bosch blue and pertronix work with points. once you go outside of that, the points cant handle it and you need a module to help. Like the GM modules or magnaspark module. Next you go to CDI coils that give more spark output, less spark duration but you got multiple sparks, and its been shown that sparking really intensley to reach all areas of the chambers makes a better and more violent explosion.

[DerrickfromNC1]

[APPLEGREENVW]

[jpaull]

Thanks Applegreen, great link for instructions.

The digital boxes all say digital on the top, if it doesnt, its not digital, its analog.

The digital 6a's are low profile and have a plug on one side only. These are the ones that gave msd a bad name, as they are made in china and were hit or miss for years.

Digital 6aplus and the 7 and 8's look similar. I dont want any part of these boxes either. too many reports of issues.

The analog boxes are all tall and have wires or some connections on both sides. All the boxes that use this case are analog.

The 7al2 plus is still analog today and made in usa, indestructable.

[KEGZ]

Cheapin out on ignition..

jk, breh. Cool thread.

I'm runnin that 7AL-2 (the older model), BTM, pro power coil, rpm-activated switch (leftover from my nitrous setup), hidden crank wheel on a berg power achiever pulley with sensor from Mario Velotta, billet low pro distributor from Jaycee.

[Clatter]

Since this is my first go at this, thought I'd hit some details..

Because my car has a full interior, heater etc,
It made sense to try and put stuff under the rear seat.
Trying to do a clean install if i can.


Pass-thru was first.
Got the car in the air to figure out a good location.
Sneaking up over the torsion housing seemed to work well;
Protected from underneath, still clears lower seat frame.

Happy to report that the Taylor 'repair kit' wire will easily reach from under the rear seat to the distributor.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tay-45401


'Catbox' template technique was employed, pizza was Hawaiian.

Because i have a couple of different motors for this car,
Drilling holes for both MSD and Crane setups will make changing easier.
Ran some wires up front for switched hot, tach, etc.
Thinking about where to put a terminal block or fuses.
Also putting in a washer tank kit for burnout squirt.

The Crane parts had missing GM Weatherpak connectors so i ordered up a copy kit from Amazon.
The idea was to make harnesses for easy swap of the two ignitions.
After thinking about it some more, it's not really needed under the back seat out of the weather.
What would you do?
Think it's worth it, or should i just wire it up like normal?

Bent up some sheet aluminum, cleaned up the MSD parts, got them in place.
Found some stainless button heads, but still waiting for more rubber mount feet.

Getting ready to wire it up, bunch of questions..

Think i should run the switched hot thru a relay?
Seems to me that maybe the box itself already has a relay inside, because it also takes that big hot wire from the battery+ ?

Also, would you fuse anything?
VW never seemed to like to fuse the coil+.
Doesn't show any fuses in the MSD instructions.
Still, i sure like things protected by fuses..


Since the MSD is going in with my SVDA, I'll be removing the resistor from the rotor.
Because i have a nice new 009 rotor here i wanted to use it.
(free is free after all)
However, the height is different..
Checking the depth, it looks like i can just take the bottom of the rotor down on a belt sander.
Anyone know a reason this might not be OK?

Also,
Because the MSD 6 has no rev limiter..
In a rev-limiting rotor,
The resistor is hidden under a black area (towards the top in pic) just like the regular rotor?

I'm not the best at wiring.
Have a terminal block and also a fuse block here,
Plus some relays,
But not really sure if any of that is actually needed.

Also wondering if i can get away with just running a big rubber grommet for passing the coil wire thru the front engine tin?
Seems like another pass-thru is overkill.

Same with securing the big 8mm wires, not only in the compartment,
But also for that long coil wire run.
How important is it to keep the wires separated from each other, and also away from grounded metal parts?
Is there a good kit for V8s or something?
Maybe just open up the factory ignition wire clips a bit?
Maybe it doesn't even matter?

Any input is most welcome.

Apologies for hijacking Jeff's great thread with detail drivel,
but it makes sense to install this stuff correctly,
even if it did come cheap!
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Lingwendil]

If I'm not mistaken there is a resistor under that black epoxy on the rev-limit rotor. Easy test is to throw a DMM on the brass terminals on either side of the epoxy and see if it has resistance or not.

Should work well
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[dunk]

to answer the rev limit rotor question...

dig out the dremel and the soldering iron! ... works fine..

a small piece of brass would probably be better.. but this is what i had...

should probably get some epoxy on there too

[jpaull]

Clatter, Great Post! I'm glad you put it under the seat and out of the weather. Nice idea on buying the box of weather pack connectors! And using the same one on 2 boxes really makes things easier. I'm hi-jacking that idea!

power wires to coil are now high voltage, no fuses please. (if that was what you were asking).

I would be careful passing a plug wire through engine tin. If you do, make sure its a last resort and nowhere else to go. Make sure its a really good grommet that puts some distance between the tin and plug wire.

Fuse/relays for the large power wire to the cdi- likely a good idea. I have not done it so do as you say not as i do lol. CDi instructions state to wire directly to battery, so i have not went outside of that.

[jpaull]

[catbox]

[Lingwendil]

If I'm not mistaken the 7 series boxes draw something like 10 amps at 10,000RPM on a V8 application, so a 10 or 15 amp fuse should be plenty on our little four cylinders.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[rayjay]

This isn't really strictly ign related but I am going to wire in 6 pin trailer connectors so that taking the motor out will mean unplugging a couple of these connectors instead of disconnecting multiple individual wires.

[KEGZ]

[jpaull]

[Witnin01340]

Hi Everyone,This is for jpaull or someone that knows,i purschased a crane HI6N CDI and a new FAST E92 coil but the coil only has 2 studs for the wires to go on;the FAST E92 dont have the place as the crane LX92 coil has that the wires from the cdi plug directly in to the coil,so as i read on here that the FAST E92 is exactly the SAME coil as the LX92,so how do i wire the Crane HI6N to the FAST E92 coil ? I only purschased the FAST E92 coil because all the( NEW) crane LX92 coils for sale online has a bad rap and got me to thinking since crane is no more why is there new crane LX92 coils cheap online,maybe there not a oem crane coil is what i thought of time of purschase of the FAST E92 coil. Thanks for replying.