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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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So, first of all thanks to all of you that contributed to this thread. It really encouraged me to go for it with this ignition. I especially want to thank jpaull for starting this thread and being the main advocate for setting up an electronic ignition on the cheap.
I've got less than $200 into mine and I set it up today and the car roared to life on the first crank!
Here is my setup: MSD clone dizzy from evilbay for $106, Blaster 40K volt clone coil $35, Crane Cams HI-6300 (old school NOS) ignition box $55.
I'm running this on a 1967cc stroker engine with dual 34mm carbs (soon to be upgraded to 40 mm IDFs).
I first mocked it up in the engine compartment just to make sure it was going to work. Once I knew it was going to work I pulled all 4 plugs and re-gapped them to .038.
Once I got it running I began the process of relocating the box and coil to inside the car.
Engine compartment is much cleaner looking now!
So far in the 15-20 minutes of run time the ignition box has not gotten above ambient temperature. I will keep feeling it on longer drives and my son is on standby to add a computer fan to it if necessary.
Thanks again for this awesome thread and if you are on the fence about doing this, go for it!
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3464
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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Todd thats a pretty awesome deal, you got a distributor, coil, and ignition box for $200, which is less then many spend on just a ignition box alone. (or for a distributor alone)
You might grab a spare spark plug, pull a plug wire, and start up the engine with the plug wire on the spare plug (yes just running on 3 cylinders) that way you can see how healthy the spark is.
try to search and email anyone you can to see if that box requires a resister on the coil or what coil is supposed to have. Would be nice if you can get some years and miles out of that combo. |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| Quote: |
Todd thats a pretty awesome deal, you got a distributor, coil, and ignition box for $200, which is less then many spend on just a ignition box alone. (or for a distributor alone)
You might grab a spare spark plug, pull a plug wire, and start up the engine with the plug wire on the spare plug (yes just running on 3 cylinders) that way you can see how healthy the spark is.
try to search and email anyone you can to see if that box requires a resister on the coil or what coil is supposed to have. Would be nice if you can get some years and miles out of that combo. |
Jpaull, will do. I did email FAST and have not heard anything back yet. I suspect that this box is so old and obscure that no one will know much about it. I don't fully trust it yet so I'm carrying my old setup just in case. I'll try to capture some pictures or video of the spark test so you can tell me what you think.
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:11 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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So, I installed the system shown at the top of this page and the car runs great but seems like it is down on power compared to the old points system.
Any ideas?
I set the timing at 32 degrees at 3000 rpm, I opened the plug gap to .035.
Am I missing something here?
We did try to see the spark but it was too bright and the spark looked blue and okay, not super strong but still sparking fine.
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| Did you rev the motor beyond 3000 to make sure the adv curve was all in ? IIRC the distributors come with the stiffest spring set installed which is about useless imo. |
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toddb_67
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| Quote: |
Did you rev the motor beyond 3000 to make sure the adv curve was all in ? IIRC the distributors come with the stiffest spring set installed which is about useless imo.
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I did rev it beyond 3K but I did not swap the springs, think that would help?
Is the theory there that the advance is slow to come in with the stiffer springs?
_________________
1970 Pastel White Westfalia
1971 Super Beetle Convertible (sold) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582365&highlight=
1970 Squareback "Savanna" (sold)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714683
1974 Karmann Ghia- current project, 1967cc engine. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775207
“I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me.” - Dudley Field Malone |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| toddb_67 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Did you rev the motor beyond 3000 to make sure the adv curve was all in ? IIRC the distributors come with the stiffest spring set installed which is about useless imo.
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I did rev it beyond 3K but I did not swap the springs, think that would help?
Is the theory there that the advance is slow to come in with the stiffer springs? |
If the full adv doesnt happen until after 3000 then you could get into detonation [ pinging ] beyond 3000 rpm as you will be having too much adv. I will post the msd charts and we can look at them.
Going by the charts the 2 heavy springs and the black bushing would work out good. Adv starts at 1500 rpm and is all in by 3000. Set the timing at 3200 to 3500 rpm.
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toddb_67
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Joined: November 28, 2003
Posts: 1313
Location: Hansville, WA
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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After a bit of wiring to get my $20 MSD6 and free Blaster SS in, it ran great! 
At least for a few weeks... 
Running it to work on the freeway i opened it up a bit to climb a hill and it fell on its face.
It would still run at very light throttle but any kind of pedal and the fire just sort of went out.
Farting and stumbling and in everyone's way..!
Had to nurse it home on back roads as it wouldn't go over like 25MPH.
At first i pulled the plugs and cleaned 'em and decreased the gap from .035 to .028.
Then i suspected a plugged idle jet so i rebuilt the carbs.
Now, I'm about to re-stab the old blue coil to see if that fixes it.
Troubleshooting only of course.. The car did run much better with the ignition upgrade.
When installing the MSD setup i did up my Bosch SVDA with a no-resistor rotor, some spiral Taylor wires and non-resistor plugs.
Is it OK to run my Pertronics module and blue coil with these plugs/wires/rotor or should i swap them back out for resistor stuff?
Anybody ever have a failure like this?
Seems like the stuff should work or not work, dig?
If the blue coil does fix it, what should i replace first, the coil or the CDI?
Added this stuff to the thread here,
Because,
Let's admit it,
It's bound to be part of the game buying old electronics... 
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3464
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| That really has the signs of a bad coil |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| That really has the signs of a bad coil |
Thanks for the quick reply Jeff.
Just gambled $77 on a new one.
Beats re-wiring for sure.
When you get this stuff for cheap or free,
There’s always that chance it was sitting around because it was bad..
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Bus Motor Build
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Witnin01340
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2021
Posts: 131
Location: PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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I said i will reply the results i got by going with the china msd,crane hi6,so the engine is a 2.2l type1 around 10ish compression with a 306 duration cam.
The engine would not run below 850rpm without being fussie but after installing the crane hi6 with the china msd the engine now will idle smoothly at 650rpm thats not a mistype,650rpm and gained hp through out the rpm range so a big thanks to jpaul.
Im not saying every engine will get the results this engine did with the crane hi6,china msd setup. |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| Witnin01340 wrote: |
I said i will reply the results i got by going with the china msd,crane hi6,so the engine is a 2.2l type1 around 10ish compression with a 306 duration cam.
The engine would not run below 850rpm without being fussie but after installing the crane hi6 with the china msd the engine now will idle smoothly at 650rpm thats not a mistype,650rpm and gained hp through out the rpm range so a big thanks to jpaul.
Im not saying every engine will get the results this engine did with the crane hi6,china msd setup. |
What adv curve did you use? |
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Witnin01340
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2021
Posts: 131
Location: PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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10 @idle,30@full adv.
I didnt play with the timing much but it seems another degree or two may benifit,will be playing more with timing tho. |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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When I was setting mine up I used the largest adv limiting bushing and which ever spring pairing got the cent adv all in by 2800ish rpm. Now that I think about it my eBay dist didn’t come with springs or bushings so I ordered them from MSD.
I’ve always set my engines initial at 15 to 20 for best starting and off idle responsiveness then limit the cent adv to make the full adv suit the engine |
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Witnin01340
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2021
Posts: 131
Location: PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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| I cant say for sure if it really give it more hp but it did give it a crisper throttle maybe making it seem like it give it more hp,but for sure this setup helped this engine. |
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Witnin01340
Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2021
Posts: 131
Location: PA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Chinese MSD Distributor Tips & Tricks + Budget ignition Demo |
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rayjay, i didnt get to play with the timing alot but yes i have the springs and offset bushings just didnt get to mess with it alot yet.
Thanks rayjay for your input,like stated i will play with it at a later date and will post the results. |
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