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Rebuilding transaxle with Samba help! 091/1 (fun starts pg 4)
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old_man
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:


Consider a hold-down for the Mainshaft bearing.
And look at the remanufactured "gear carrier housing).


Hold down = https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000281/1002217 ?


I might just take it apart and then have a look and order what I need. I looks like weddle can ship quickly. Unfortunately it is UPS which may be very painful ($)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

I purchased a new gear carrier from Weddle. It has the 4 bosses cast for the full bearing retainer available in the Samba classifieds. I feel it’s a better solution.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
You have the tool for holding the 1st gear pinion race/nut, but it's actually a two part tool. There is a hex type adapter that has splines that fits on the shaft. Basically you use your tool to hold the race/nut in a vice and then you turn the shaft to tighten the race/nut. I had to make a tool to grab the hex adapter. I cut a socket in half from harbor freight and welded a piece of roll bar tubing between the halves. I was doing a syncro so it needed to be longer than for a 4 speed.


I think I now fully understand what you said. So I have the hex adapter for the pinion nut but I need something to turn the shaft. Is that the tool you managed to manufacturer out of a cut socket or is there another way to turn the shaft without damaging it?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

This is the complete factory tool.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The socket I extended fit the hex part. I’d grabs the gear splines. Torque value is pretty high. Best DIY would be to modify an old gear for the splines.

Weddle sells the tool. I’ve used it twice. Compared to cross country freight x2 the tool is a good value. Of course in VW wisdom, that tool does not work on the Syncro front differential. Not a problem for you. You might get away with your tool if you had a safe way to hold the pinion shaft. Maybe soft jaws for a bench vice. You’d still need an extended socket.

Manual has you heat the race to install. Installed hot, it didn’t take much rotation to hit the torque value.

Disclaimer: I’m not really the one you should be asking about vanagon transaxles. There are more qualified folks here than me.
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old_man
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:


Weddle sells the tool. I’ve used it twice. Compared to cross country freight x2 the tool is a good value. Of course in VW wisdom, that tool does not work on the Syncro front differential. Not a problem for you. You might get away with your tool if you had a safe way to hold the pinion shaft. Maybe soft jaws for a bench vice. You’d still need an extended socket.

Manual has you heat the race to install. Installed hot, it didn’t take much rotation to hit the torque value.


I thought about soft jaws or an old gear. Do you know which gear would work best so I can WTB one? I could use an open end wrench on my adapter if I use a soft jaws vise but it would be an imprecise torque value.

MarkWard wrote:

Disclaimer: I’m not really the one you should be asking about vanagon transaxles. There are more qualified folks here than me.


It's all good. I get it. I appreciate the help. I've managed to download a copy of the 094 workshop manual and it's helping my understanding. I'm going on the assumption that the 091/1 and 094 are fairly similar.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

This attitude is strangely prevalent on these forums: anxiously pre-repairing functioning components. I just don't understand it. I guess if you're retired and bored, or have a family and want an excuse to hide away and tinker. But, frankly, I think pulling apart your perfectly functioning transaxle and rationalizing it as smart maintenance is silly at best. Neurotic is maybe more accurate... Present it as a ship-in-a-bottle exercise and it would sit better in the mind...

Anyways, I don't recommend doing this at all unless you have been given warning signs via noise or excess metal buildup during fluid changes, or you know for a fact that the trans has 300k mi on it and entropy will win eventually.

Relax everyone. Your vans are not prone to spontaneous destruction.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

Phaedrus wrote:
This attitude is strangely prevalent on these forums: anxiously pre-repairing functioning components. I just don't understand it. I guess if you're retired and bored, or have a family and want an excuse to hide away and tinker. But, frankly, I think pulling apart your perfectly functioning transaxle and rationalizing it as smart maintenance is silly at best. Neurotic is maybe more accurate... Present it as a ship-in-a-bottle exercise and it would sit better in the mind...

Anyways, I don't recommend doing this at all unless you have been given warning signs via noise or excess metal buildup during fluid changes, or you know for a fact that the trans has 300k mi on it and entropy will win eventually.

Relax everyone. Your vans are not prone to spontaneous destruction.


While I generally agree with your sentiment this is a bit of an interesting case.

The 091/1 transmission has a design flaw; the 3-4 slider hub. It is known to fail with no warning. My choice is either to fix it now at a time of my choosing or do nothing. If I do nothing there is a chance that it won't fail for a very long time, if ever. There is also a chance that it could fail at a very inconvenient time incuring me substantial costs.

Further driving this decision is that I will be using this truck to move in the summer. Should the transmission fail on that trip it would be a most expensive experience.



This is how I see the world:

Some parts are wear items that wear at a very consistent predictable rate allowing one to change them near the end of their life yet at a convenient time (e.g. brake pads/rotors). Or sometimes they give you warning of impending failure (e.g. wheel bearings) It's almost irrelevant if it results in a catastrophic failure or not as you replace them before they fail.

Other parts you wait until they fail because they fail with out warning but it's not catastrophic when they fail (e.g. turn signal bulb)

Other parts fail without warning but also result catastrophic failure so they are replaced on spec. (e.g. timing belt). I replaced the timing belt on my Vanagon even though it was functioning perfectly fine.

To each own where they see the Vanagon transmission fit. Will it give me warning? How much more will it cost me if it grenades on the side of the highway when I am moving.

That is how I see the world and what drove my decision. Right now I am DD the truck to work in the winter but I accept the risk as I have a back up plan if it goes to shit. Moving with that truck in the summer starts to exceed my risk tolerance for the given reward of saving/delaying the cost of a rebuild.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

Don’t hold me to this, but I believe both 3 and 4 fixed gears share the same spline dimensions.

As far as preventative transaxle repair goes. My Syncro gear box had a persistent leak. Started with a simple reseal, found a crack in the case, upon further inspection found the 3/4 slider hub in 2 pieces. No indication of a problem shifted fine. In addition found the mainshaft large bearing was shifting in the carrier and 4th gear idler was grinding into mainshaft inner race. 3rd gear idler was rubbing on shift shaft. 175,000 miles indicated no history and again shifted fine. If not for the leak, it was on its way to coming apart. I believe Waldi recommends going through one every 100 K kilometers. This keeps the rare expensive parts usable.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission rebuild parts kit vendors Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
To each own where they see the Vanagon transmission fit.


To eliminate worries about a critical drive component scratches an itch, doesn't it?
Just to "know" everything is in order before driving across the country,
passing thru areas where there are zero spare parts, zero expertise etc.

And to build it even better is satisfying too.

MarkWard wrote:
Don’t hold me to this, but I believe both 3 and 4 fixed gears share the same spline dimensions.


Yes they are the same spline.
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Last edited by Sodo on Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

You might consider purchasing and rebuilding another 2WD 4-speed. They are not as absurdly expensive as the syncro stuff. Then rebuild it without any downtime or time pressure so inspecting can be done before ordering. Then install it when convenient.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
You might consider purchasing and rebuilding another 2WD 4-speed. They are not as absurdly expensive as the syncro stuff. Then rebuild it without any downtime or time pressure so inspecting can be done before ordering. Then install it when convenient.


Considering all options, and your situation, I personally like this ^ idea the best. Grab a spare trans while the 2wd's are still generally cheap. Rebuild it with no time limit. Pop it in when needed. Trans removal takes 30min, relatively easy job if you have the space.

I understand your worry re: the 3/4 slider. I guess it depends on how much risk you're comfortable carrying, how heavy it weighs on you. How many miles are on your trans? Do you know?

Also, if you have the pro AAA tow insurance for $99/year, the costs would be low if you had a spare trans to pop in and could do it yourself. My 2c.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
You might consider purchasing and rebuilding another 2WD 4-speed. They are not as absurdly expensive as the syncro stuff. Then rebuild it without any downtime or time pressure so inspecting can be done before ordering. Then install it when convenient.


Unfortunately there aren't too many around here and shipping form the US is a fairly big expense. Saw a nice diesel 5 speed in the UK for cheap but again...shipping. I think my currently plan is to wait until the snow/salt is gone and get my other cars on the road. Then I will tear apart the current transmission, see what's what, and then place an order. That should give me lots of time. Having a fully rebuilt spare transmission would be nice though.

Phaedrus wrote:
Considering all options, and your situation, I personally like this ^ idea the best. Grab a spare trans while the 2wd's are still generally cheap. Rebuild it with no time limit. Pop it in when needed. Trans removal takes 30min, relatively easy job if you have the space.

I understand your worry re: the 3/4 slider. I guess it depends on how much risk you're comfortable carrying, how heavy it weighs on you. How many miles are on your trans? Do you know?

Also, if you have the pro AAA tow insurance for $99/year, the costs would be low if you had a spare trans to pop in and could do it yourself. My 2c.


I've had the transmission out already. Easier than my other two cars. Having a hoist certainly helps. Unfortunately I don't know how many KMs are on the car. It's a 5 digit odometer. So it's X45 000KM. It does have about 5100hrs driving time.

I do have CAA and it's nice having that for around here. Not sure if it's going to cut it with my plans this summer.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

And just like that it's all of a sudden difficult to get it into 4th.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

ESP?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

old_man wrote:
And just like that it's all of a sudden difficult to get it into 4th.


Hah! Your intuition is good, follow your gut. Laughing Though, perhaps check the hydraulic clutch circuit and shift rod play before scheduling a wake.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

Could also be something like the linkage acting up and it being pure coincidence. I have no fully investigated to come to a determination.

Also I think my head gasket all of a sudden is acting up so I have bought a TDI replacement engine.

So this will be a transmission rebuild and probably a regear as well + a swap. I've got the next 2 weeks off of work so I am really tempted to just drop everything out of the truck right now and just get this over with. Downside is that I would have to drive something else like my boring Tacoma. (first world problems)

On the subject of this, before I start a new rebuild/swap thread. I have an ABH transmission. I've been reading a lot because I have sometimes nothing else to do at work. My question: This + this = success? Or just stick with my current JX clutch/flywheel. I am also trying to figure out what gearing I want.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

I ran a stock 1.6 diesel flywheel and clutch mated to my ALH TDI for
45,000 miles without a problem. Eventually if I nailed it in 3rd it started to slip. I replaced it with a single mass TDI flywheel and clutch. I did have to install the larger input shaft. There is a thread about upgrading clutches under something like VR6 clutch. I have it bookmarked, but my iPhone is terrible at adding links to bookmarks. Impressions were a heavier pedal, but overall smoother pulls through the rpm range. Next time I’ll try a dual mass clutch just for the experience. As far as gearing, you need to look at desired rpm range.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
I ran a stock 1.6 diesel flywheel and clutch mated to my ALH TDI for
45,000 miles without a problem. Eventually if I nailed it in 3rd it started to slip. I replaced it with a single mass TDI flywheel and clutch. I did have to install the larger input shaft. There is a thread about upgrading clutches under something like VR6 clutch. I have it bookmarked, but my iPhone is terrible at adding links to bookmarks. Impressions were a heavier pedal, but overall smoother pulls through the rpm range. Next time I’ll try a dual mass clutch just for the experience. As far as gearing, you need to look at desired rpm range.


Maybe I will hold off on the clutch upgrade then. Current one has less than an oil change on it.

I read that thread late last night. It was good.

Anyone have any ideas on gear changes if I keep my 5.43 R/P? I would hate to rebuild the transmission and then have to get at it again to swap a couple gears. Terrain around here and where I am moving to has moderate hills, speed limits of about 100kph, but there are always headwinds which seem to really affect my truck.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

I never ran my TDI with the original diesel gearbox. I did use an air cooled 4 speed. I also went to taller tires. I’m recalling 3000 rpm at 60mph. The 5.43 would be screaming at 60 mph. As I said, you need to look at the power and torque curves of the engine your installing.

I’m running a 4.14 with a .77 4th on shorter tires. 3000 rpm at 70mph roughly.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission 091/1 rebuild parts kit vendors/ Rebuild planning Reply with quote

It's an AHU but it's got a Giles pump on it and different injectors so I have no clue what it is capable of nor what the power curve is like unfortunately.

Current winter tires are 215/65R16. I suppose I could get some cheap 16" steel rims for summer and run the same size. Advantage of that is I would get away from 14" rims and the limited tire options. Call it future proofing.
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