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Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

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Here's my Subaru EJ25 oilpan. It might be an Outback or Outfront Motorsports pan (?).
Its at appx the same level as the skid bars.
As you can see it needs some protection, but it's steel, and unlikley to bust open,,,,,but,,,,,.

I want a 5 quart oilpan ----> the Smallcar cast Aluminum oilpan.
This thread appeared on TheSamba.
Small Car oil pan puncture ~ Solved / Follow-up
A Samba member, mrshrimp, busted his oilpan on a rock, and had to replace it.
I wondered if the Smallcar pan was weldable, and so I asked mrshrimp for his broken pan.
He was so disgusted with his debacle, and perhaps equally puzzled by my interest in it,
that he just sent it to me. FWIW, it welded nicely, so now ya'll know!
Now I need to protect it, so I'm redesigning the Syncro skid bars.
In time for Van season.
Which is right around the corner.👍🏽😎

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the rear section removed. The plan is to build a similar section, but build it better, with a 1/4" thick aluminum plate cover over the cast oilpan.
I will have to unbolt the cover to change the oil.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


First things first.
I cut this infuriating connection off.
I hate this design of overlapping bolts, especially the one way up high behind the shift rod.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This vertical post will remain bolted to the van.
The forward bars and the rear section will bolt to it INDEPENDENTLY.
Tomorrow there will be tabs welded here, and bolts.
Beautiful, accessible bolts.
Where any one section can be unbolted without disturbing the others.
To unbolt the driveshaft, the driver's side front bar will come off easily.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's the rear structure that rims the Smallcar cast oilpan.
It will have a sheet of 1/4" aluminum covering the oilpan.
Which won't protect it from a nuclear blast, but 95% is pretty good.
I don't want to lose much ground clearance - as you can see in the TOP pic, the evidence that I use up whatever ground clearance I'm given.
(and thus far....not a whole lot more)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wondering if those two bars could be bolted on, thus removeable independently.
....will decide that tomorrow.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There will be 1/2 inch of airspace between the aluminum cover plate and the Cast oilpan.

OK this is where I'm at. See y'all tomorrow.!
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dustibus
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Nice looks good, and I would think 1/4 aluminum would hold up fine under there and be a lot lighter then anything else!!
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alaskadan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Cool. I've been planning a skid bar redesign too. Partly for the reasons you are doing it , and partly because I want it to be symmetrical so I can make a pair or side covers to keep the underside cleaner. Though concerns of air flow around trans need to be considered. Why use sticky aluminum? Wouldn't 1/8" steel give comparable performance ? Granted the 1/8" steel at 5.4 lbs per square ft vs 1/4" aluminum at 3.5 lbs is heavier but not that much for such a small pc.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

alaskadan wrote:
Why use sticky aluminum?


That's a dang good point.
Alaskadan you're like somebody's dad.
I guess Aluminum just seemed more exotic. I was thinking also of countersinking the holes, which is a pleasure with Aluminum, and kinda laborious with steel.
OK 1/8 steel is better.
Bolts all around it will be strong like a membrane.
And that's 1/8" more clearance too.
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Gear oil is like underwear.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Is there room to get the oil filter out? Looks tight in the one picture. Doing that laying on your back. Wow. Good for you.
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swissarmychainsaw
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

My humble suggestion would be to put 90 degree bends on the side of the sheet metal, and drill/tap hose in your square tube.

For a couple of reasons:
1. If you use this as intended, a nice flat bottom will slide over everything (christ!)
2. Not having you bolts all jammed up with mud and crud will make oil changes that much easier.
i have HATED bash plates on bikes that were bolted on from the bottom.

Please to be enjoy this non-technical, technical drawing:
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vwhammer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
alaskadan wrote:
Why use sticky aluminum?


That's a dang good point.
Alaskadan you're like somebody's dad.
I guess Aluminum just seemed more exotic. I was thinking also of countersinking the holes, which is a pleasure with Aluminum, and kinda laborious with steel.
OK 1/8 steel is better.
Bolts all around it will be strong like a membrane.
And that's 1/8" more clearance too.


I would not overlook some of the plastics available.

A 3/8" thick UHMW plastic plate would work pretty well in that situation.
It's super slippery and abrasion resistant and also very impact resistant.
It would weigh a little over half as much as 1/4" aluminum.
It's also super easy to drill and cut with simple wood working tools.
It's also half the price of aluminum.

Just a thought.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

There's one inch that the oil filter can drop down off its post.
But I will unscrew it for sure.
Thanks for the reminder Mark!

swissarmychainsaw wrote:
My humble suggestion would be to put 90 degree bends on the side of the sheet metal, and drill/tap hose in your square tube.


swissarmychainsaw I am TOTALLY with you on that plan. Then I can use bolts instead of 5mm hex.
Hex socket screws are nice for some things, but I hate them on short countersunk bolts that have a large diameter head that over-powers the hex tool engagement.
Thanks for the note!!
Changing to steel makes this method more feasible.
I kinda like the membrane-strength that steel would have, but some of the
membrane effect is lost by going around the corner.
But I will choose maintainability. Wink
vwhammer wrote:
I would not overlook some of the plastics available.
A 3/8" thick UHMW plastic plate would work pretty well in that situation.

Main problem is they don't make kitchen cutting boards that big.. Wink
Hmmmm I'm still leaning towards steel 'cuz the skid bars are super-strong in dragging the plate, and steel slides pretty well on rock.
And 1/8" steel is 1/4" MORE ground clearance. I've already lost a bit of ground clearance from stock (will try to measure the loss).

GREAT discussion on this, I really appreciate it! Exclamation
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Quote:
There's one inch that the oil filter can drop down off its post.
But I will unscrew it for sure.
Thanks for the reminder Mark!


Not my first rodeo. Cool My Acura has a very short filter. You'd just need to match the threads to the Subaru. There aren't many options if you find its tight. Rather than dropping the plate to do an oil change, some sort of simple access would be a better option. Even something as simple as a large rubber grommet. Once that assembly gets tweeked, you may never get your pan back on without elongating the holes. Doesn't take much.
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alaskadan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

X2 on the vertical returns for attatchement points. For me with our salty roads and mud in my design I'd use U clip nuts somehow or at the very least nuts and bolts. So a year later when the bolt snaps upon removal I'm not fighting a rusty broken bolt stuck in the hole. I like captive nuts for certain applications just nut this one.
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big swifty
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Restaurant supply stores have larger cutting boards...don't know if you've checked them out.
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FrankenSubySyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Take a look at mine here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2EhAeIhY_h/

Those tabs on your mustache bar need to be thicker. Mine mounts under the MB.

Also suggest the bracing up to the frame rails in the middle of the skid bars.

I used 3/16 aluminium and unbolt it for oil changes.
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rmcd
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Someone on the samba used a swingarm like a bushing so the whole rear frame would swing down to access the motor. I was thought if I redid mine thatís what I would do.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

rmcd wrote:
rear frame would swing down to access the motor.


I'm looking into that.
Not with a bushing, but pivoting, on 2 of the bolts to drop down at rear.
At first I wanted to modify the OEM skid bars could drop dow easily but it was just too hard with that silly over-lapping mounting debacle (near the U-joint).
Can you remember a searchterm that could help to find the post?

FrankenSubySyncro wrote:
Those tabs on your mustache bar need to be thicker. Mine mounts under the MB.
Also suggest the bracing up to the frame rails in the middle of the skid bars.
I used 3/16 aluminium and unbolt it for oil changes.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I know what you guys did! (Frankensuby's honkin' skid bars above)
Wasn't intending to make it so I can lift it with a floorjack under the skid bars,,,,
but I totally understand where you're coming from on that.
....and where you've been with that Syncro. Shocked
Didn't you guys drive "Hells Revenge" with 3 Syncros?

Tabs on the moustache bar are 3/16 and super short, they couldn't get much stronger.

I'm eyeballing a support for the middle oif the skid bars.
Do you mean the forward (driveshaft) bars or the rear at middle of the transaxle?
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....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.
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FrankenSubySyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

I meant the rear at the middle of the transaxle since that is what you are working on. Since you mentioned it, I also have a brace on the drive line bars too. I do have to remove the aluminium plate to change the oil with the SC oil pan.
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rmcd
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Hurt my memory banks a little but here it is. Syncru build.

human compass wrote:
some pics of the skid plates coming together and a peak at the ceramic coated exhaust
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=575458&highlight=
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

OK I've seen that Syncaru skid bar.
That's too wicked.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Got the rear section structure done.
I decided to make it similar to the OEM.
But it will be so much easier to either swing down, or remove entirely
OEM bars weighs 22.5 lbs
(Incomplete) new bars weighs 23.5 lbs.
There will be more stuff welded on.
But the structure is much stronger, & thicker steel.
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....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
OK I've seen that Syncaru skid bar.
That's too wicked.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Got the rear section structure done.
I decided to make it similar to the OEM.
But it will be so much easier to either swing down, or remove entirely
OEM bars weighs 22.5 lbs
(Incomplete) new bars weighs 23.5 lbs.
There will be more stuff welded on.
But the structure is much stronger, & thicker steel.


Nice work as usual Sodo!

I just had to drop my skid plates and bars to work on the shift rods, would LOVE to have something that was a bit easier to take off - the rear section to bars connection is nuts (in the wrong places too!).

Iíve got a diesel, and it looks quite a bit different then your OEM from the bar connections back, solid (mostly) under the engine and weighs a ton. Or close to a 1/10th of a ton. It would be great to have something lighter/easier when I have to remove it to fetch whatever tool Iíve dropped through the engine Twisted Evil Would be curious what kinda mods would have to be made to yours to fit.

Looking forward to your progression.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Here's how I dealt with the rear attachment:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The nuts on top of the angle are welded on so I just blast out the four M10 bolts.

Still have to work up some other mod for the front, both for fast removal of the prop-shaft bars to ease prop-shaft removal, and independent removal of the engine grid for other work. I want to add some extra bracing across the prop-shaft bars and up to the frame rails, too.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Redesign Syncro skid bars to protect Smallcar Cast oilpan Reply with quote

Envious of the ground clearance of the WBX!
I think easy removal of the engine bars is a #1 goal and paramount to any mods.

Appreciate all ideas!
Hoping the good ideas come before I'm too far along on this project to incorporate them...

-----edit----

Thinking about the driveline protection bars, the deflection can be limited at the 1/3 point by a block that bears out on the body/frame crossmember.
Center would be better, but 1/3 is pretty good.

I taped a 2x2 (1.5x1.5) block of wood there and it looked like a simple mod.
So I made a steel limiter that bears on the crossmember if the bars flex 5mm.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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'07 EJ25 with '12 longblock, (Peloquin TDB on the shelf), locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system. LiFePO
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.


Last edited by Sodo on Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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