Custom Exhaust Thoughts

[Rengroulx]

Just looking for thoughts and opinions! Should I refurbish this exhaust system or invest in a new one. I haven't found anything like it online... Must be custom made.

Running a Stock 1600 DP with Kardons.

Cheers,

[/img]

**UPDATE**
These are Doug Thorley Bug Pipes.. Thunderbird did make similar style headers
Credit to spencerfvee and SBD

[vwracerdave]

The exhaust is just an old dual system. The bolt on tips are home made. That exhaust system came with two bolt on glass pack mufflers when new. You would actually get a tiny bit more performance buying a new cheap 4-into-1 header.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Rengroulx]

Hi vwracerdave, thanks for the info!

I'd be curious to see what the original exhaust with the glass packs looks like...

Considering merged vs Dual Cannons

[Glenn]

Generator needs to be rotated 90* clockwise.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[Rengroulx]

Noted! Thanks Glenn

[SBD]

[oprn]

Dual cannons and Kadrons is about as bad as you can get for poor idle and low rpm drivability. Some people can live with it, I couldn't even though I was determined to retain the classic dual cannon look.

What you have now is better than dual cannons but I would expect an improvement with a 4 into 1 system.

How comfortable are you with building your own system?

[spencerfvee]

[Mark Evans]

I like the custom shroud plug on the left...
_________________
'63 Ragtop

[EVfun]

[Rengroulx]

@SBD oh I beleive you! these pipe are LOUD.. Thanks for the pic, looks neat

@oprn I didn't know Dual cannons and Kadrons were a poor combo... Might actually clean these up and send it to a chrome shop, I don't have the pipe bending equipment to fabricate a system. What did you have in mind?

@spencerfvee Thanks!! That ad looks awesome, couldn't find a pic of this system anywhere

@Mark Evans ahaha never really noticed.. I took this shroud off, I'm installing a complete chrome dress up kit, However I will keep that shroud for another project. Thanks!

@EVfun The pic I posted was actually the first time I ever started that engine! I did a compression test, rebuild the carbs, tuned up the ignition system, changed the oil and hoped for the best... It fired up and idled very good, I was very suprised. I will upload a video if I can figure it out

[oprn]

On my system I paired the cylinders properly to get even exhaust pulses. That means pairing the 2 front cylinders together and the back 2 cylinders together. It's awkward to do and that is why it's not done commercially. I bought "U" bends and straight pipe, cut them up, pieced it together and welded it up. I am very happy with the results. The engine is very smooth with lots of bottom end torque. It has quite a unique sound too.

I must warn you though that it will not be cheaper than buying a complete type 1 system. In my case there were very few "store bought" options because it is a type 4 engine so the decision made more sense. It took me about 2 weeks of spare after work time to build.

Actually I am not that surprised that your system idles reasonably well. This I believe is due to the tubes being a lot longer than typical dual cannons. The front 2 cylinders are the ones that don't want to idle on conventional cannons and they are the shortest pipes.

Your system is unique and I don't blame you for wanting to save it!

[Rengroulx]

@oprn your exhaust system looks great! I’ve never seen anything like it, bending everything to fit must’ve been a chore and a half 😅.. You don’t see many with type 4 engines on buggy’s!
Thanks for the info! I’m set on restoring these bug pipes.

Any suggestion to modify this header (add glasspacks, merge it together, buy a muffler) etc.

Cheers!

[spencerfvee]

[oprn]

If it were mine I would try a pair of glass packs.

[rayjay]

He has the basis for a tri-y header there but I don't know if the cyl pairing is correct. Also the primary lengths are probably way longer than desired. Still, it would be fun to fab up a 2 into 1 to bolt to those flanges and see what sort of power, driveablity and ex note you ended up with.

Or 2 u-bends to 2 mufflers but with an 'H' pipe connecting the 2 sides.

[Rengroulx]

@spencerfvee That's an awesome story! The good ol' days indeed, I've never herd pipes loud like these. The slightest throttle snap will blow anyone away lol.. Sounds a lot bigger than a 1600 haha

@oprn would you bolt on galsspacks on the ends going 90* both ways or include it in the J-tube somehow ?

@rayjay Agreed! I'll design something.. Maybe I'll find a pipe I could easily modify to fit, all part of the fun!

Cheers Gents!

[oprn]

Personally I would do as rayjay suggested, 90s and glass packs. The balance tube between them is a very interesting idea though and without a doubt would change the sound.

Yes I was thinking seriously about a tri Y when I built this system but stuck with duals for nostalgic reasons. I could still... some day...

It's pretty much impossible to get the primaries as short as recommended on an opposed engine without doing it directly under the engine case. That leads to serious ground clearance issues. Longer primaries just tunes it to a lower rpm so for me it's not an issue, lots of grunt off the start.

As for pairing, this is the only way they can be paired properly to get alternate firing cylinders paired together. It seems some of the Jap performance cars do not pair them like this but they are ultra high reving engines with little to no torque at the bottom end. That fits with my observations with the dual cannons vs 4 into 1 systems. I found no real discernible difference between the two on power and drivability on the highway but around town the dual cannons sucked!

[EVfun]

I used to run the short tube dune buggy duals, the kind with no heater box or j-tube and short little glass packs (with the glass blown out.) One of my amusements was to smack the throttle while coasting in a parking lot. I could often set off multiple car alarms it was so loud. I always lightened up on the throttle a little extra when a cop was in sight.
_________________

[oprn]

As much as I do enjoy the "pair of badly tuned Harleys" sound that you get from cannons the first 3 hour day trip I did with mine left my ears ringing for the evening! What I have now has a definite throaty bark when on the load peddle hard but at cruise you cannot hear the exhaust over the wind noise.