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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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 Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| Quote: |
I would be curious how this system works with the Kadrons. |
Yes 
This and kadrons.... Idle is still going to be 2 cylinders, but I think the throttle response and cruise performance would be significantly better than the OTHER way. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5475
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| modok wrote: |
| EVfun wrote: |
| I would be curious how this system works with the Kadrons. |
Yes
This and kadrons.... Idle is still going to be 2 cylinders, but I think the throttle response and cruise performance would be significantly better than the OTHER way. |
I'm not so sure it would idle on "2 cylinders" (they hit all 4, but 2 are really weak.) VW and Porsche sold a number of aircooled engines with dual single throat carbs, 356, type III, and later smog compliant type II. I think it is quite possible to run dual singles and hit on all 4.
Has anyone taken 1 1973 Thing (with the split dual exhaust) and run it with dual carbs? Has anyone tested a range of exhaust systems on a near stock engine with dual single throat carbs? I wonder if just crossing the front cylinders, so no intake is fighting an exhaust, is enough to kill most of this problem. Hey Rengroulx, if you can post some video and audio of that engine idling we may learn something! The more engine details you can post the more we might learn. If VW could make dual 1bbl carbs work surely we can too.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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It's a piece of cake,
Run a short duration cam and a balance tube.
but so what.
The uneven idle isn't even a problem.. IMO it's a fuel saving feature.  |
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Rengroulx
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2020
Posts: 28
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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Here is a video of it running! It’s not perfectly timed, twas the first start.
Thanks for the interest and replies![/youtube] https://youtu.be/RWFAt87Nn9Y |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| Rengroulx wrote: |
Here is a video of it running! It’s not perfectly timed, twas the first start.
Thanks for the interest and replies![/youtube] https://youtu.be/RWFAt87Nn9Y |
.......................................................................................love the sound its bad ass .do you want to sell the headers lol lol i would have every cop pulling me over lol spencer fvee ps I wish you would have reved it up some lol |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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You, sir, are my hero!
I've been trying to work up the energy to make a custom exhaust, and it's not going to happen any time soon... |
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SBD
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012
Posts: 3269
Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| Rengroulx wrote: |
Here is a video of it running! It’s not perfectly timed, twas the first start.
Thanks for the interest and replies![/youtube] https://youtu.be/RWFAt87Nn9Y |
That's about the same as they sounded with mufflers back in the day. 
_________________
"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5475
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| Rengroulx wrote: |
Here is a video of it running! It’s not perfectly timed, twas the first start.
Thanks for the interest and replies![/youtube] https://youtu.be/RWFAt87Nn9Y |
Thank you! That sounds a whole lot better than my first buggy did with a 1600cc DP with Kadrons, dune buggy duals, German 009, and 1.25 rockers on the stock cam. I had a much more pronounced strong/weak/strong/weak idle and the engine was generally crabby below 2500rpm. It was a lot stronger than a stock single carb from 3000-5000 rpm though.
I would like to run dual 1bbl carbs on my 1600 single port in my current buggy but with the 1973 split VW Thing exhaust I fear drivability would suffer like before. Quietness and drivability have become much more important to me over the last 25 years. 
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Rengroulx
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2020
Posts: 28
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| I sandblasted the Pipes today! I will keep you guys updated, took the homemade tail pipes off and I'm going to look into what style I want to go with. I'm pretty fired up to see these pipes back on the engine! |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12714
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| EVfun wrote: |
| I'm not so sure it would idle on "2 cylinders" (they hit all 4, but 2 are really weak.) VW and Porsche sold a number of aircooled engines with dual single throat carbs, 356, type III, and later smog compliant type II. I think it is quite possible to run dual singles and hit on all 4. |
My experiance with Kadrons and cannons was that a 4 cylinder idle never happened cold. It would idle at 6 to 700 rpm on start up then take it for a run and immediately after it would idle on all 4 at 1200 rpm until it cooled off. So a nice snappy 4 cylinder idle when you stopped at the lights but by the time the lights turned green it was back to 600 rpm on 2 cylinders. Then it was hit and miss for the next block or so unless you floor boarded it off every light to warm it back up. Just like you said, crabby below 2500 rpm. For the driver that only uses two throttle positions (off or on) they run just fine!
After I changed the exhaust to an old 4 into 1 system it was much much better and the misfire was mostly on cold start up. The addition of a thermostat and flaps made a another big improvement as it didn't cool off nearly as much around town.
My sister had a '66 Squareback with the dual carbs and for a long time I thought VW had a performance cam of some sort in them because I could never get a real smooth idle with it. It didn't have a dead miss like the Kadrons but it was never smooth like my Beetles. The difference I believe is the smaller carbs coupled with the stock exhaust masked the issue. |
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Rengroulx
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2020
Posts: 28
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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After sandblasting |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:02 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| I like all the fins on the alum valve covers but I wonder if the fins should have been oriented vertically and maybe modify the tins so air is blown past the VCs ? |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| I was thinking about the tri -y set up and the only way it works is on a TeePee header on a rail buggy. Maybe a type 3 motor on a rail buggy |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12714
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| rayjay wrote: |
| I like all the fins on the alum valve covers but I wonder if the fins should have been oriented vertically and maybe modify the tins so air is blown past the VCs ? |
They are designed to take advantage of the horizontal slipstream under the car to cool them. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12714
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| rayjay wrote: |
| I was thinking about the tri -y set up and the only way it works is on a TeePee header on a rail buggy. Maybe a type 3 motor on a rail buggy |
I have never seen a Tri-Y Tee Pee header, type 1 or 3. Please enlighten me as I will be redoing my sand rail exhaust soon and am very interested! |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| oprn wrote: |
| rayjay wrote: |
| I was thinking about the tri -y set up and the only way it works is on a TeePee header on a rail buggy. Maybe a type 3 motor on a rail buggy |
I have never seen a Tri-Y Tee Pee header, type 1 or 3. Please enlighten me as I will be redoing my sand rail exhaust soon and am very interested! |
I have never seen one either. I'm just saying that the only way to make the phasing work would be on a custom built teepee and a rail is the only place a teepee makes any sense. With a type 3 you could keep all the pipes low . Bag of snakes kinda like the original Indy Ford 4 cam motors !! |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12714
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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Ah! Ok! I did an exhaust for my boss many years ago on a type 3 powered buggy. Yes I was able to keep it low but it was not a Tri-Y.
I am wanting to go Tri-Y on this sand rail and going over in my mind how to accomplish that. Man! The type 3 would definitely make is easier! |
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chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| Sounds alot like an Abarth exhaust |
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rayjay
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 1506
Location: Buford GA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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| oprn wrote: |
Ah! Ok! I did an exhaust for my boss many years ago on a type 3 powered buggy. Yes I was able to keep it low but it was not a Tri-Y.
I am wanting to go Tri-Y on this sand rail and going over in my mind how to accomplish that. Man! The type 3 would definitely make is easier! |
I am also intrigued by the crank speed cooling fan with separate alternator mounting. I think there is a lot to be learned about the upright cooling for performance / higher rpm applications. Really needs a variable speed drive. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Custom Exhaust Thoughts |
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I did a tee-pee tri-y once, probably 12-14 years ago. Went over the top of the shroud. 20" primaries 20" secondaries I think.
Didn't have much boost because I didn't have the proportions correct, but it was nice and quiet and didn't misbehave at any rpms at all. |
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